European University Collaboration Discussion



  • After speaking with many Europeans while oh my tour, I had noticed the true desire of many that is to set up a University Collaboration Scheme in which the various and many Universities in this region would work together to further the common purpose of education. Now I will admit that I am completely lost when it comes to this sort of thing, but I do know that some of you are far more familiar with the notion. What I am proposing is a Council Discussion about this topic so that we may indeed one day realize the wants and desires of our constituents.

    I will mostly play the role of observer and moderator of this discussion. Feel free to take the conversation where you want, but I will interject if the discussion falls too far off topic. This Council needs to decide whether this is the role of the Council to mandate University Collaboration, or should it just encourage cooperation. If it is indeed the role, then we can begin to work out how a collaboration system will work and draft legislation. If not, then we can leave it up to nations or universities themselves to establish working relationships. But I'd like the Council to at least further fund collaborations in educational fields other than the arts.

    Dominik Frank
    Internal Affairs Commissioner


  • group:cid:2:privileges:mods:members

    Firstly Commissioner Frank thank you for opening such a valid discussion up to all members of the chamber. Educative collaboration is what is required to make great advances in many fields, this is why universities exist. In universities diseases are being cured, new technology is being developed, the past is becoming uncovered as is human and animal behaviour. We have learnt about the cultural aims and expanses of others, how to gain economic success and how to. But most of all we have learnt to learn.

    I think what we need is a commitment by institutions. We must acknowledge the differing university systems and respect these by allowing something to operate not under council or indeed commission control. Perhaps we facilitate a meeting of university leaders in our chambers?

    We could again look at specific funds like the arts collaboration fund. I would like to raise an issue with the collaborative fund in that the suggested leader of it has not yet been visible, in whose domain is it to change the leader of this group so it can begin its processes?



  • I, too, would like to thank Commissioner Frank for this initiative! It's wonderful that this scheme has taken wind under its wings!

    Could I say it any better than Kairos? The university is in many ways the heart and soul of any nation. It's where new ideas are born, old ones are researched, and humanistic creativity meets the so-called hard science. Education has never been more important than today. For sure, the internet's there with its web encyclopaedias to answer all your questions, right? But long gone are the days when a scholar could boast that he or she had indeed studied all that there was to be known of the world -- read the works of Aristotle and Plato and the Church Fathers, and then call himself a polymath. We may have Wikipedia at our disposal 24/7, but without a solid, encompassing education that gives us the means to find the relevant information from the depths of this ocean of data and, even more importantly, put it into the proper context -- invaluable!

    That being said, Pax Aurea's Minister of Education was bouncing up and down when she heard about this meeting. We'd be more than happy to join this program with our academies.

    If we do start working on this kind of collaboration, we'd have to decide at first what level we're talking about. Would this mean that the top professors, researchers and lecturers do joint projects together -- or does it extend to student exchange as well? Would the other resources of the academies be available for sister universities -- libraries, archives, laboratories, etc.?

    Equally important would be to find some common ground in what way we accept the credits of Degree A in the universities of other nations, since we're definitely not trying to make away with the uniqueness of our institutions!

    Nadira Orcello
    Councillor of Pax Aurea



  • That cooperation program would be very positive for the students, scholars and institutions involved. Our government has just signed an extensive students and lecturers exchange program with Pax Aurea. It could be an interesting model for a future European Program.

    This project includes the creation of "student status" and "scholar status" for immigration issues, to allow students and/or scholar to stay in the country without problems during an academic year. The students could, even, take partial-time jobs or internships in companies or institutions related with their field of study.

    The agreement makes sure that the academic year taken by students abroad is fully recognized by their national educative authorities, never mind the subjects studied.

    Marie Rivas
    European Council Delegate



  • "I join my colleagues in endorsing the efforts of Commissioner Frank.

    Education is Occoron's number one priority. The world isn't standing still. To the contrary, it's changing every day even more quickly. Europe-wide cooperation will give scientists the opportunity to think about answers to today's and tomorrow's main challenges.

    Also the Democratic Republic has several educational programs with other nations. Not only students, but also scientists are exchanged. Councillor Orcello raises an important point when she wonders what kind of cooperation we want. I think Councillor Jelesniak answers her question: also we think a university collaboration should be discussed by the universities in the first place. We see the Council having more of an encouraging role. Also the financial aspect can be discussed in the Council. Even if some of my colleagues would like to see the Council having more to say, we are of opinion the Council can not take any decision on this matter without at least consulting the universities. "

    Elena Dammo
    Councillor of the Democratic Republic of Occoron



  • It should be our priority education and greet the commissioner Frank who started this discussion. Above all we negotiate every day should be kept in mind the new generation that will come to follow us. So I think in fairness that there is already a European education program that will provide a basis for strengthening the European Union and from another institution. So we wait with impatience the day when you are on the Council's resolution which will make all this and then we will be not only to vote but to support it.

    European Representative of North Europa
    Kenny Lucky



  • Alright, enough with the introductions and pleasantries. Its time that we get to the substance of this discussion. If you want to hear from Universities in your constituency, then call them. This is not a summit of education, this is the legislative process. Councillor Orcello has brought up great topics for debate, lets discuss them. Lets hear more about these pre-existing programs within Northern Caesarea and elsewhere. They could very well be a template for a final product.

    Councillor Dammo is asking quite the just question: Is it even our role to involve ourselves with university collaboration? Lets have this debate. In my opinion, this should be discussed before all else. If it is deemed that it is better for the Universities or states themselves to bring about collaboration, then we can end this Council discussion and move the conversation elsewhere independent from these chambers.

    After a few more days of discussion, I will act upon the consensus of the Council.

    Dominik Frank
    Internal Affairs Commissioner



  • I think University Collaboration is a good topic to be discussing. A solid education can spur many new opportunities and new technologies. However I don't think it's in our best interests to have universities forced to participate in any such collaboration nor should the EU government be in charge of any such undertaking. Curriculum should not be dictated by Euro-level politicians.

    If we do this we should model this after the Cernovcy proposal with willing universities. However I'm concerned at such a strong focus on research cooperation and a lack of focus on making things better for students. Some nations' universities can offer unique opportunities to students that other nations' cannot. So from this we should look to set up programs which allow students to move between nations that offer opportunities they cannot otherwise get. Now as an idea with this we can allow these students who have to leave a nation to pursue an opportunity they couldn't otherwise get to pay a reduced tuition fee and the cooperating universities would reciprocate with each other.



  • ?I agree with Councillor Roebuck. Education can indeed spur many new opportunities and technologies. And forcing universities to work together isn?t a good solution. It will waste a lot of money, as the funds might not always be that amazingly well spent, due to the possible lack of enthusiasm.
    As I said, Occoron already has several educational and scientific programs with other nations. The most is the AORIST. A strong focus lays on research cooperation, but the AORIST also includes student as well as educator exchange programs. Students from one nation can go to the university in another nation, while another student makes the reverse move. The same happens with PhD students, as well as professors, researchers and any other academic personnel. The costs are very limited, basically just the transportation, while the student or academic gets invaluable foreign experience in exchange. That isn't only very useful if you?re looking for a job ? let?s be honest, what kind of job can you nowadays get, without having to cooperate with other people from other nations and other cultures? ? but also in your everyday life. It certainly broadens your view on the world, which can only have positive consequences. That?s in short what Occoron does, and why we do it. For what concerns the financial aspect, the AORIST ? as some may already know ? is financed for 1/3 by the Aurean and Occoronian government, for 1/3 by the universities, and for 1/3 by private companies. This cooperation has proven to be very successful, and that?s not only my opinion. If you look at the last update of the London Stock Exchange, you can see it is the most costly share you can get.

    I don?t expect such a European cooperation to go as far as the AORIST. That is why I agree the Cernovcy Model is indeed a good starting point. As I said before, we see such a cooperation first and foremost between the universities themselves. Every single university has its own history and identity, and every single country has its own view on what the best way is to pursue education. You could solve that problem by letting the universities partly pay for the project itself. Whether a university is funded by private, public or mixed resources, it doesn?t matter. It doesn?t matter where the money comes from ? although I personally wouldn?t support black market money ? and everyone can still keep his identity, without losing any decisive power. The Council would get a more encouraging role, and by encouraging, I?m talking about the financial aspect. I agree with Commissioner Frank: Also I would like the Council to at least further fund collaborations in educational fields other than the arts. Such a European funding will keep the costs - and thus the burden to participate ? for every university as low as possible. I think if we can agree to spend money on arts programs, it shouldn?t be difficult to agree on an educational and scientific one. And to keep the costs for the governments as low as possible, we might also consider a cooperation with the private sector. Sponsoring something with scientific in it always looks good, and they are also close to the source of hundreds of thousands smart men and women. Nowadays, it?s not always easy to find a job, but neither is it to find someone to take the job. Being close to the ?spring? will certainly give those companies an advantage, so I guess some of them might be interested in a cooperation.

    For what concerns the exact division of who pays what, as well as if we are ?berhaupt dividing the costs, I would like to hear the opinion of my colleagues."


  • group:cid:2:privileges:mods:members

    Upon consultation with the chamber of chancellors, the group that leads the universities of Os Corelia, I have been advised the following as given in an email to me by chamber chair Prof. Ivi Iovonak:

    'After a vast discussion in the chamber the Chancellors and Vice-Chancellors have agreed that the best course of action does not need involvement from either the Council or Commission and does not need legislative support from Europe. We currently have prime examples of cooperation with other EU institutions such as the recent deal with the United Kingdom to fund a marine research centre effectively creating an institution that exists over two countries. The deals we have made operate on the research strengths achieved when combining with certain universities in certain nations for essentially a competitive advantage. The United Kingdom are an Island nation, as are we, so the combination works. I tihnk this can be done if we the university leaders could establish our own council of research

    Yours sincerely
    Prof. Ivi Iovonak'



  • "I would favour, of course, the Cernovcy proposal, a voluntary agreement between universities to form a group which would work together on research in science and the humanities; and I also support giving European funding to such a group to help students study in other European countries, whether for a year abroad as an undergraduate, or as a postgraduate."



  • In my opinion, the universities themselves should play a key role in agreeing on the many different practices and methods of cooperation, as they are best aware of their own capabilities and resources. The Union's role could be that of a patron: on one hand, to participate in the funding of academic programs and science projects between universities, as decided by a board perhaps; and on the other hand, to create a scholarship program to ensure that gifted youngsters even from less-wealthy families have a chance to study abroad should they so wish. The intellectual values of the academic exchange and the increased numbers of highly educated employees, researchers, and entrepreneurs will pay these investments back to Europe in manyfold.



  • A consensus has formed that it is indeed best for the universities themselves to bring about educational cooperation. This part of the discussion is now over, but there is still much that can be done.

    QUOTE (Gun-Toting Animals @ Dec 23 2012, 05:50 PM)

    If we do this we should model this after the Cernovcy proposal with willing universities. However I'm concerned at such a strong focus on research cooperation and a lack of focus on making things better for students. Some nations' universities can offer unique opportunities to students that other nations' cannot. So from this we should look to set up programs which allow students to move between nations that offer opportunities they cannot otherwise get. Now as an idea with this we can allow these students who have to leave a nation to pursue an opportunity they couldn't otherwise get to pay a reduced tuition fee and the cooperating universities would reciprocate with each other.

    QUOTE (Angleter @ Dec 24 2012, 01:58 PM)

    "I also support giving European funding to such a group to help students study in other European countries, whether for a year abroad as an undergraduate, or as a postgraduate."

    QUOTE (Pax Aurea @ Dec 28 2012, 08:43 AM)

    create a scholarship program to ensure that gifted youngsters even from less-wealthy families have a chance to study abroad should they so wish. The intellectual values of the academic exchange and the increased numbers of highly educated employees, researchers, and entrepreneurs will pay these investments back to Europe in manyfold.

    These are some ideas that have been brought up prior in this discussion, and I believe it best that the conversation move in this direction now that collaboration itself has been delegated elsewhere.

    Dominik Frank
    Internal Affairs Commissioner



  • I agree with Commissioner Frank. I think we need to discuss what is the structure of this whole system to move slowly in shaping the bill to be tabled at council

    Kenny Lucky
    North European Councilor



  • Should the bill be a fruit of a think-thank between two councillors after a discussion between all representatives as already done for some bills or a product of all councillors' ideas and opinion?


  • group:cid:2:privileges:mods:members

    I don't think it bill worthy to be honest, it is something to be agreed on out of these chambers. If we were to give assistance there maybe a provision for a bill but if not then we needn't pursue it further. Perhaps the Premier could send a letter to university groups about this.



  • Supplying artists with brushes is bill worthy, but aiding students that pursue studying abroad is not? The idea of the Council mandating university collaboration is dead, but surly there are other ways we can aid academia? If it is up to the universities to collaborate, they will be unable to help those that wish to study abroad. Universities are not nations; therefore they can not influence immigration policy like the Council may be able to do.

    Councillor Jaxson Marshall



  • I do not believe the two councilor approach to be appropriate given the nature of what we're aiming for and that we need University officials to hash out an agreement they see fit. Perhaps we contact officials from the Cernovcy think tank and see if we can get them to draft something.

    If it turns out like I think they've previously discussed and like what some have hinted in these chambers we can still provide funding for the initiative. Whether we want to discuss that now or later is the real question.

    I will say I'm a bit wary of giving some kind of funding to only specific universities and giving them a "stamp" of approval to distinguish them from the rest of the European academic institutions. I don't quite know if that is the place of our Council. There are many public and private institutions that can always use a little extra funding to make the educational experience better. I have no interest in creating a commitment to fund all institutions that would partake in such a plan because then we are incentivizing every university to join the program and then we're on the hook for quite a bit of money for what could possibly amount to the subsidization of the entire European collegiate level educational experience. Our nation is not ready for that kind of increased budgetary burden.

    However we do agree that there are other ways we can aid any such University collaboration. As Councilor Marshall points out we can help reduce the barriers to studying abroad either temporarily or for the duration of a student's journey to completing a degree. There are of course other things we can possibly aid in as well.



  • QUOTE (Gun-Toting Animals @ Dec 30 2012, 05:10 AM)

    I will say I'm a bit wary of giving some kind of funding to only specific universities and giving them a "stamp" of approval to distinguish them from the rest of the European academic institutions. I don't quite know if that is the place of our Council. There are many public and private institutions that can always use a little extra funding to make the educational experience better. I have no interest in creating a commitment to fund all institutions that would partake in such a plan because then we are incentivizing every university to join the program and then we're on the hook for quite a bit of money for what could possibly amount to the subsidization of the entire European collegiate level educational experience. Our nation is not ready for that kind of increased budgetary burden.

    Perhaps we should focus on the students instead of the institutions, then? We might begin by agreeing on a universal set of standards by which we could hand out scholarships or other kind of financial support for students looking for a possibility to study abroad, and the nature of that "other kind of support". Let the students choose the academy, and the respective universities agree on the details of the courses and degrees -- we could step in by making it financially possible to start a European-wide student exchange program available for all member states.


  • group:cid:2:privileges:mods:members

    'Right so we want to fund student transfers I gets it' the councillor clicked his tongue squinted his eyes and moved his fist across his body. 'Emotions don't half run high do theys garrr. This is indeed a worthy cause, I tihnk I lacked understand in what we were trying to achieve here. I tihnk it's a case of a University Access Fund where students going to another country apply and we have a set efficient amount in Euros, and then if needed exchanged into equivalent currency, we give to each student. I think it needs to means tested so we don't fund those who can easily afford it. Maybe have a set boundary of family income around the application'


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