Article 11



  • Article 11

    1.Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

    Proposed Edit: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which one has had all the guarantees necessary for one?s defence.

    2.No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

    Proposed Edit: No one shall be held guilty of any penal offense for any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offense, under national or international law, at the time it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the offense was committed.

    Most of the changes made were to provide gender neutrality as well as simplify some language or take out unnecessary words.

    What do you think?



  • All in all, this Article looks quite good and fair.

    I assume "international law" in this context refers to European legislation here, and presumably multilateral treaties as well. What about crimes -- or perhaps I should put them in quotes here -- that were committed prior to a nation's membership in the EU, and during such a period where national laws were, shall I say, "twisted"? For instance: would it be possible to pursue legal action against perpetrators of ethnic cleansings in a nation, if they were at that time working under orders by the legitimate authorities of the said nation, and the nation was not bound by any external legislation?



  • I would say that in your scenario it probably wouldn't be possible to pursue those charges. Which granted is unfortunate but to provide a less serious example, the EEC wouldn't pursue legal action against Pax Aurea for not following the stipulations of the treaty prior to its joining.



  • In the case mentioned by the Aurean delegate, any individual nation can always ask for an internal judicial procedure, for instance as a precondition to start trading and diplomatic relations. And if there is a consensus, I guess the Council could also start such a procedure.



  • I agree that we should leave the article as it is with the edits William proposed. Like Elena pointed out, there's always extraordinary ways to deal with extraordinary cases, and this Declaration is after all about the principles, not detailed specifics.



  • So I guess we can also here proceed to the voting procedure. This is the current proposal, also by Dr. Roebuck:

    QUOTE

    Article 11

    1.Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which he has had all the guarantees necessary for his defence.

    Proposed Edit: Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law in a public trial at which one has had all the guarantees necessary for one?s defence.

    2.No one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the penal offence was committed.

    Proposed Edit: No one shall be held guilty of any penal offense for any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offense, under national or international law, at the time it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the offense was committed.



  • I vote FOR the proposed changes.



  • I vote FOR



  • I vote FOR.


  • Mass Effect RP

    I vote FOR.


  • Mass Effect RP

    Article 11 has a majority of four and is passed.


 

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