Abolition of the Death Penalty within the EU

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    user posted image

    I have been looking through past documents from within the Office of the Commissioner for Internal Affairs and I have found evidence which suggests that a bill abolishing capital punishment within the EU would be supported.

    I have some questions,

    1- Would your government support such a ban?

    2- Does your government believe that a ban should be passed through the European Council?

    I would appreciate your views on this.

    Rt Hon. Eric Pickles MP
    Commissioner for Internal Affairs

  • The emperor, the goverment and the people of Groot Belgie wouldn't support a ban nor a bill passing the council.

  • Would the councillor for Groot Belgie be able to provide me with information as to why your government would not support a ban on the death penalty? Why does your government believe that capital punishment is crucial to its justice system?

    Are there any other governments who would like to respond to a factfinding attempt by a Commissioner?

  • The Empire of Inimicus firmly supports the death penalty, and will therefore not support a bill attempting to ban it.

    Ralph Jaevons

  • group:cid:2:privileges:mods:members

    All civilized society recognises that the death penalty is nothing but a form of primative "justice". The Os Corelian government upon its formation of the new nation immediately and constitutionally removed it from our justice system. We recognised the horrendous flaws in such as system for example when our nation was under the Taloshian regime thee margin of error in terms of wrongful convictions was at a shocking level. We also have the moral obligation to realise that state sanctioned murder is in fact criminal. We would full endorse and support such as measure as your suggest.

  • Groot-belgie would not endorse such ban because it is part of our system from when there is no doubt if the criminal did the criminal act. Our police force is highly trained and haven't made any mistakes of such things. As for such we won't endorse any of such bills that bans capital punishment as it limits our meanings of punishing wrong doers.

  • Would those countries who still support the death penalty be prepared to make any compromises?

    For example only allowing the death penalty for murder and not other crimes?

    Are any other countries going to answer?

  • As a pioneer nation in abolishing death penalty, the Federal Republic of Northern Caesarea would support this ban.

    Hugo Basescu
    European Council Delegate

  • We view violent rape and pedophelia as serious as murder. These are the only crimes you can get capital punishment in Groot-Belgie. But the emperor can always decide to give a person the death penalty because of blasphemy against his person.

  • QUOTE (Davishire @ April 2nd, 2014 - 9:34)

    Would those countries who still support the death penalty be prepared to make any compromises?

    For example only allowing the death penalty for murder and not other crimes?

    Are any other countries going to answer?

    With the first part of the answer given by the councillor from Groot-Belgi?, I agree. In Inimicus, criminals who have committed awful crimes such as repeated rape, pedophilia or mass murder, can get the death penalty. We think these people do not deserve a place in Inimician society, but if other countries are willing to adopt them, let them!

    Ralph Jaevons

  • group:cid:2:privileges:mods:members

    I severely doubt the statements of my esteemed colleague from Groot Belgie and ask him to present evidence to support the claim that the Groot Belgian police have never made a mistake, contsant perfection is an impossibility when it comes to justice. I am reminded of the great quote 'The law is reason free form passion' but the death penalty is often associated with crimes that envoke such grand passion hence the increased likelihood that justice is not fully served.

    I also wish to express severe concern that the Groot Belgian Emperor can retain a right to effectively murder his critics under so-called blasphemy laws. This is incredibly dangerous for democracy a principle on which this union stands.

    Count Kairos Jelesniak

  • In Nouvelle Picardie there is no legislation prohibiting the use of the death penalty, although it has not been used in my nation recently. My government is ambivalent on banning its use and not strongly opposed to legislation that would implement a EU wide ban. The Inimican suggestion of other countries accepting, likely for imprisonment, criminals sentenced to death is an interesting concept.

    Perhaps if there is too much opposition to a ban, protection of some form could be given to citizens of nations where the death penalty is banned while they are in nations where the death penalty is accepted.

    Cuxi Anyas

  • I am afraid that information is classified without a formal investigation.

    And by the way how dare you to offend the emperor? There is absolutly NO proof in ANY way that my gracious emperor misused his powers!

  • group:cid:2:privileges:mods:members

    Well the fact it is classified without a formal investigation thus proves that you can't be certain about a perfect record of justice. How did I offend the Emperor? I did not accuse the Emperor of anything but merely pointed out that such a law is a heavy restriction upon freedom of speech and the right to be critical of authorities and thus the right to protest. There is no space for this in the EU.

  • "I think, and this is a rare occasion, I agree with the Os Corelian councillor on this point. In Inimicus, the Emperor has formal absolute power, but, as previous examples have shown, if an Emperor or monarch makes himself too unpopular, he is likely to end up in a coffin. Therefore, the Inimician Emperor, although considered 'divine' by tradition, does not hold absolute power.
    This is the first time we finally get a glance into Groot-Belgian politics, and it is not a nice one. I respect the divinity of their monarch, but I do think this case has to be cleared up. How does the Groot-Belgian Emperor use his powers? Does he have executive, legislative, and judicial powers? What is a 'formal investigation' by Groot-Belgian terms?"

    Ralph Jaevons

  • The information is classified for other nations. As our police force don't make any mistakes we know when someones a spy or not.

    Os you offended the emperor by pointing that out! Protests are allowed.

    The emperor has judical powers, In war he can take up command of the army and he has to sign laws, thats about it.

  • "I thank the Groot-Belgian councillor for his answer, but I would like to ask him: would he be interested in a visit by Commissioner Barrington to discuss matters such as these? After all, he is the Commissioner for Defence and Peacekeeping.

    Also, I don't really understand the reason why my Os Corelian councillor all of a sudden 'offended' your Emperor, mighty as he may be."

    Ralph Jaevons

  • I agree with my colleagues on the basis that an absolute monarchy is a dangerous thing for a region which has belief in freedom of expression and freedom of speech and I am concerned that although the councillor expresses information that protests are allowed I am curious if that means all forms of protest including speaking against the government of your nation.

    I am also concerned that you agree that your police force makes no mistakes, even in Davishire there are occassional miscarriages of justice, for example in November 2005 a man was sentenced to 25 years imprisonment for murder however evidence of corruption by police bribing a jury following the showing of evidence of his innocence he was released in 2012.

    I would like the Councillor of Groot Belgie to confirm to me how the Emperor uses his powers against his people, if necessary you may do this in a top secret private message to me.

    Eric Pickles
    Commissioner for Internal Affairs

  • Mod

    The Duxburian Union generally respects a nation's right to administer its own justice system, provided that said system is fair, due process is given, everyone is equal before the law, and whatever entity does the judging is impartial.

    I fail to see how an absolute ruler can guarantee these things when they are the judge, jury, and executioner. Back in the era of the Dairghazburian Empire, the justice system was whatever the Aelir wanted it to be. My country would like to be re-assured that there is at least *some* type of oversight or accountability in Groot Belgie's justice system (and in the police force for that matter). Infallible police simply do not exist. The Federal Police in the Duxburian Union commit a major error every 8 minutes on average, albeit due to the sheer population of the country.

    I also fail to see why the powers of the emperor need to be classified information. The fundamental workings of a government need to be transparent in a modern, interconnected world. This impacts everything from international trade to stock markets to credit ratings to tourism. It is very important to be open with your neighbors here in the EU.

    Going back to the death penalty, the Duxburian Union has changed its stance since the last time this subject was discussed. While we have capital punishment on the books, it hasn't been utilized in 2 decades and we wouldn't oppose ditching it. The Office of Ingenuity found that the death penalty wasn't an effective deterrent of crime or deterrent of ex-cons returning to crime. It also did nothing to deter gang-related murders. But, life in prison was even more ineffective, especially against gangs, and was unpopular among taxpayers.

    So, we started using "beyond life" in prison with a mix of social shaming, manual labor, solitary confinement, and "creative" punishments. Almost anyone could be rehabilitated if you discover the right buttons to press and have lots of patience.

    Probably the most notable success story is that of the infamous serial killer, Justin Sander Boxtel am Leedstilbury. He had no respect for humanity and terrorized the streets of Leedstilbury. He kidnapped people with dark skin complexion at random, tortured them with really bad music, then bludgeoned them to death with a cane and dumped the bodies in concert halls. He managed to kill some 34 people before being apprehended. The prosecution asked for death. However, one juror wouldn't go for it and rather than risk a mistrial, they agreed to beyond life with no possibility of parole.

    Justin was a hardened psychopath, social shaming had no effect. Years of manual labor did not either, and he had no interest in the "creative" punishments. It was thought that he would need to be locked away in solitary forever, but the state decided to try one more thing. Justin was forced to attend hearings for alleged murderers, the ones where teary-eyed family members and relatives confront them. He was also then forced to attend their funerals. Attending these hearings and funerals became the only thing he did, he was dragged to dozens every day.

    At first, the confrontations had no effect, he scowled and even laughed at the victims' families. Some were so offended that they demanded the experiment be ended. However, it had become psychologically significant for science at this point, so it continued. Justin's mood shifted notably as the years ticked by, more hearings, more funerals, more hearings, more funerals. He was blasted by raw human sorrow on a scale that no Duxburian had probably ever experienced since the War Among Brothers.

    Finally, some 18 years later, Justin Boxtel broke. The trial was for a seriously heinous crime and the speaker was just an 8 year old girl. She had witnessed the murder of her entire family right in front of her face. The testimony was reported to have been truly heartbreaking and caused Justin to weep uncontrollably, stunning the psychological world. He renounced "the monster" that he was and attempted to commit suicide on the spot. For the first time in his 22 year sentence, he accepted counseling. A year later, he started a foundation to assist murder victims using the funds he'd accumulated from manual labor in prison. He became a motivational speaker in prison to try and make fellow killers see the value in humanity.

    After 25 years behind bars, he fought for an exception to his original sentence for the possibility for parole. Only a shaxxizchallengo (citizens' challenge) could achieve this, and it could not be his own. 10 million Duxburians would also need to sign it. On what would have been March 4th, 805, Aelir Mareleus Lucian initiated a shaxxizchallengo to amend Justin Boxtel's sentence. It took 4 days to collect the necessary signatures and one meeting to win parole. On March 9th, 805, the most infamous Duxburian serial killer walked free and immediately founded a second NGO dedicated to counseling for people thinking about committing murder.

    At the age of 68, he achieved a PhD in Homicide Psychology from Verington University. He is still living, still working, and has successfully talked thousands of people out of murder, using his vast expertise at murdering people to connect with patients in a way that no ordinary shrink possibly could. His organizations are among the largest in their fields, have reached out to tens of thousands of victims/witnesses and have a presence in every federal prison in the nation.

    I apologize for not telling you this last time we had a death penalty debate, for I'd never the full story until recently. At the time this took place, I was 26 and cut off from the outside world working for the DIO on classified projects.

    This story demonstrates that we shouldn't give up on even the most hardened and horrible criminals. You just have to find what makes them tick and adjust your approach until you finally connect with them on a human level. And if you want to be cold and rational, note that all of this effort is still cheaper and more effective than locking them away forever. The less people you have in cages, the better. Thus, the Duxburian Union abandons its support for the death penalty.

    Acwellan Devoy
    Speaker of the European Council
    Councillor of the Duxburian Union

  • The emperor has a "special" seat in parlement, he helps forming the goverment after elections. Also he has a special seat in the higher levels of the court (because of his rights as the head of state).

    The emperor never used in his almost a year of taking goverment (remember the temporary president?) for unjust reasons. People can say things like the emperor is a ******** because of this and that. But if they say he has an unofficial child DNA tests are taken by independant researchers and this proofs to be false, the people saying this will be trailed as we believe everyone deserves a non rigged trail only difference is that the judge only leads the trail and the emperor speaks out the punishment. Rarely he sentenced someone to death.

    We would like to welcome anyone to investigate our records of the justice system and our laws.

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