Council Discussion: Definition of Nation

  • In light of the news from Os Corelia and GDR, Poland-Lithuania wants to raise the concern of what defines a nation and how that affects our European Council, European Commission etc. This is for the sole purpose of making sure our legislation remains valid and that all of our European institutions are legally sound if the union is voted for in Corelia and Germany.

    Some points we have in discussion:

    • How does this affect the voting policies of the Council?

    • How does this affect the representation of councillors here?

    • What is the definition of a nation-state?

    • Those nations in confederal or federal unions...will they be allowed to have more votes if Os Corelia and Germany join?

    • How does this affect treaty organizations and their status?

    • Does this affect the definition of the European Union and cause it to become a confederal union?

    These are starting talking points that I would like to open up to the entire council, because this is an important moment in our European institutions.

    Stanislas Kamerewski
    Councillor for Poland-Lithuania, S&D

  • "Personally I believe that should Os Corelia unify into one country, nation, confederacy or whatever then they should have one vote in the council and one council representative. "

    The councillor briefly checked her smartphone,

    "this is also Davishire government policy. It would be a dangerous precedent if two countries joining together could lead to one member state in whatever form it is having multiple councillors or multiple votes"

  • The Confederacy of Gun-Toting Animals was founded on the idea that each of its 5 member states were joining to tackle certain broad areas of policy that it thought it would be better to share the responsibility in and act as one. These areas were foreign affairs, a centralized military and a joint currency to name a few. And as such an Assembly was created as a central government to decide on the laws and areas of responsibility set forth by our Confederacy's Constitution.

    Now this proposed Havenwasser Confederation between Os Corelia and GDR is stated to be an arrangement in which "both nations will share governance on military operations, monetary and macroeconomic policy, Healthcare, Border Policy and Military Intelligence." The details of how the proposed confederation will function and decide its stances in these policy areas has not been detailed for any of the public (a travesty for the voting populaces in Os Corelia and GDR) and I highly recommend that organizers of the proposed Confederation release this information so that everyone, this Council included, will be able to understand it and judge it more fairly.

    However, with the limited information I have from the released statements surrounding the proposed Confederation I have no choice but to assume some kind of joint government will be created in order to "share governance on military operations, monetary and macroeconomic policy, Healthcare, Border Policy and Military Intelligence" as they say. This comes with the implication that both nations will have a body that can continually create and enforce new laws in a wide range of policy areas that overstep the boundaries of simple cooperation between nations.

    The idea that consolidating and harmonizing laws between the currently two nations in such a broad way does not make the Confederation as a single nation/state is kind of ludicrous. This doesn't sound like its comparable to the making a one off treaty to share criminal information between nations.

    When it comes to how it should affect Council representation, it is our belief that the Havenwasser Confederation should get a single Councillor and the Corelian and German Councillors should be dismissed. As the Constitution says, one nation gets one representative in Council to represent its interests. And the proposed Confederation will have a joint interest as one nation that it would be unfair to allow the member states of that confederation to continue having a Councillor each because their interests will be double counted.

    Once again I will urge Corelian and German representatives to release more information about the scope and structure of its confederation so that we can avoid judging it unfairly.

  • "I agree with the Councillor from Gun-Toting Animals. We have to see further details of this German-Corelian agreement before we can truly form just opinions on the matter and decide whether or not the two nations will retain their two Council seats.

    As for the Polish-Lithuanian Councillor's issues, I would like to react to the issue that if Os Corelia and the GDR retain their Council seats, those nations in confederal or federal unions should perhaps be allowed to have multiple seats, as well. I would be distraught if this became reality. That way, Halsberg would need twelve (or was it thirteen?) delegates, GTA would need to have five, Inimicus (which is, in essence, a federation of six provinces and one district) would need to have six, and so on, and so forth. This would create a situation where some nations have one vote because they are centralised and do not follow a confederal or federal model, and federations allowed to send dozens. This would completely overpower centralised nations, leaving them effectively powerless in the Council.

    To further develop these subjects, however, I think we as the Council will have to make clear definitions of the words 'state', 'nation' and 'nation-state'."

    Ralph Jaevons

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