UK's Economic and Population Growth System Proposal

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    As some of you have known, I have been working really hard on an economic system for our RP world. The challenge is always incorporating several parts, including:

    1. Including the NS categories and how that would affect your economy, since we are a NationStates region.
    2. Producing realistic numbers for our nations to get at least a better idea of economic strength.
    3. Being responsive to the RP that we do since we aren't ONLY an NS region, but we're a role-playing one where RP takes precedence over NS in many aspects.
    4. Not favouring one system of government/economics over the other (even though, no matter what system one has, it will be biased towards something)

    The result is the current proposal. It's not perfect, but I think it's a compromise that produces more real economic statistics. It has several categories that produce the relevant stats, mostly dealing with an initial GDP per capita and varying multipliers to produce some results.

    Initial GDP per capita

    Every nation starts out with 18,000 euros per capita (euros no longer being a hard currency, but a measurement we can use to judge economic strength)

    Economic Rating Multiplier

    This is borrowed from the War System (can't wage war without an economy, right?), but as a recap:

    • Frightening = 2.0
    • All-Consuming = 1.9
    • Powerhouse = 1.8
    • Thriving = 1.7
    • Very Strong = 1.6
    • Strong = 1.5
    • Good = 1.4
    • Fair = 1.2
    • Reasonable = 1.0
    • Developing = 0.8
    • Weak = 0.6
    • Struggling = 0.4
    • Basket case = 0.2
    • Imploded = 0.1

    Civil Rights Multiplier

    This is a very important step. Upon doing my own survey of actual statistics, the nations that tend to allow people more civil rights in general tend to fair better economically. The multipliers correlate to your nation's NS rating in civil rights. These are:

    • World Benchmark: 1.3
    • Superb: 1.2
    • Frightening/Excessive.Widely Abused: 1.15
    • Excellent: 1.1
    • Very Good/Good/Average: 1
    • Below Average: 0.9
    • Some: 0.8
    • Few: 0.7
    • Rare:0.6
    • Unheard of: 0.5
    • Outlawed: 0.4

    Political Rights Multiplier:

    Contrary to popular belief, democracy is not necessary to have a functioning economy or one that is prosperous: stability is the part that is necessary. The political rights multiplier is therefore far more forgiving than the civil rights multiplier is.

    • World Benchmark: 1.03
    • Superb/Excessive: 1.02
    • Excellent/Widely Abused: 1.01
    • Very Good/Good/Average: 1
    • Below Average: 0.99
    • Some: 0.98
    • Few: 0.97
    • Rare: 0.95
    • Unheard of: 0.94
    • Outlawed: 0.9

    Tax Rate Multiplier

    This one will be influenced by the Part Two of the economic system, government budgets, but you get to set your nation's revenue collected through taxes, tariffs, etc. as a % of GDP. The sweet spot is 26-35% of GDP. You can set it as you figure out your government budget.

    • 26-35% - 1.03
    • 16-25%, 36-45% - 1.02
    • 06-15%, 46-55% - 1
    • <05%, 56-65% - 0.99
    • 65-75%< - 0.95
    • 75%< 0.9

    GDP per capita (in home currency):

    Initial GDP per capita x Economic Rating Multiplier x Civil Rights Multiplier x Political Rights Multiplier x Tax Rate Multiplier x 1.1


    GDP per capita x RP population.

    Growth Rate (estimate):

    (Economic Rating * 0.0015) x (Tax Rate * 0.011)

    Annual Population Growth

    Two tiered system, based on an average of population growth percentages:

    - Developing nations: RP Pop + (RP Pop x 1.2%)

    - Developed (Advanced) nations: RP Pop + (RP Pop x 0.7%)

    Projected GDP growth

    GDP + (GDP x Growth Rate estimate)

    Currency Value Against the Euro

    Economic Rating Multiplier + Civil Rights Multiplier + Political Rights Multiplier + Tax Rate Multiplier/4

    GDP per capita in Euros

    GDP per capita x currency value

    All of these things will be visible in a spreadsheet that I have been using to create this system.

    Here are my comments

    1. It does not do things like interest rates, money supplies, etc. but that's because most RPers do not have a base knowledge of these things. As people are more aware of what each of these things do to an economy, we can look to add things. I personally believe that it should be up to the RP-er to go as in depth as they want.

    2. It does not include balance of payments or trade figures. See #1

    3. It can work without touching what we do with population right now, and it can work without projecting GDP, it would just mean that there is an issue of economy growing in step with population all the time, which is how most other calculators currently function (NSEconomy, for example).

    4. The way it would respond to RP would be a lowering in categories. For example, if Nation A blockaded Nation B, then on the next update, Nation B would go down one category temporarily until said blockade is lifted.

    5. My purpose is to provide realistic stats in a manner that is very user-friendly and that can be used by more than one person so that when it’s time to move on, we know that someone can handle it.

    Please give me feedback. I know it won't bother me if we don't use it; it's my attempt to do something that integrates the War System (which already gives implication as to economic strength on its own), the fact that we are an NS region, and provides leeway to get it to respond to RP events.

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    Blessed be thee, Goddess Wooo! Finally, the new system has been proposed! I love it. πŸ˜€

    I'd be more than happy to readily adopt this, but I just have three wee things I'm not very sure about.

    First, the whole population growth thing isn't quite bueno. Angleter explains why this is on the other thread.

    Secondly, and this isn't actually a criticism of the system, but the whole projected growth rates thing will be rendered pretty useless in reality. If all of our nations were to never drop or increase one of our economic, political or civil rights rankings, then it would be good. But that's not how it works. We can't really accurately project growth, when ultimately, it all depends on how you change your stats on NS. For example, Nation X could have the best projected growth rate, but it wouldn't mean anything if he answered an issue on NS a certain way, and his economy suddenly crumbled drastically, rose sharply again due to answer another issue one way, then drop drastically again. His growth rate wouldn't match up with reality. That's just an exaggerated example, but that often does indeed happen on a small scale. I know personally that Inquista wouldn't have had the best growth rate a year ago (considering the stats it had), but it's actually grown tremendously and it went from 4th in GDP per capita to 1st (and it had a lot of drops and kinks in there too, trust me 😜). And I've noticed quite a few nations jump drastically while others have unexpectedly slid during this time as well. This spreadsheet won't be able to catch all of this. Again, this spreadsheet just assumes that nothing on NS will change. The calculation itself is fine, it just won't really mean much. Plus I feel like most people just won't care. It's a cool feature, but we could probably just disregard it and people that want it, such as yourself perhaps, can measure that independently.

    Lastly, the GDP per capita (in home currency) should actually be in euros, shouldn't it? You're basing it off the 18,000 euros you start out with. I'm not sure how it's somehow translated into your own currency. On NSEconomy, it translates it into NS$, which we've been using as the euro. It would be quite problematic, atleast in my belief, if this were to be in our home currency. I feel like having a GDP per capita of ~54,000 in Inquistan francs would be too high, never mind GDP capitas of ~72,000 euros. I just feel guiltily overpowered with that, and I wouldn't be okay with others having it that high either.

    Otherwise, everything else is perf, and thanks for going through all the fire and brimstone to produce this for us.

  • Admin

    Yasss, praise God. I see your concerns, and I will look at them closely, and I will invert that equation so that what is first is GDP per capita in euros and then gdp per capita in home currency.

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    Projection of growth is just that, though: projection. What actually happens is up to NS, RP etc. But thank you Dylan for the comments. I already swapped the equation around a bit.

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    Okay, I'll put my system up for a vote.

    This is the sheet after Inquista's suggested changes. Click here

  • Admin

    Woo, thanks for making the changes!

    Okay well, I vote for adopting this system.

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    I am also a supporter of this system. Our RP universe is too fragile to sever from NS and rely on each other. We couldn't even get the Eurozone to work without stats based on NS there's no way we can maintain a viable system.

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    I also wish to use this system. I like the approach of just starting with the basics and then expanding from there if need be. It's important for an economic system to have transparency in order to have legitimacy. Like with the War System, the Election Systems, Eurovoice, and just about everything else in the region, the methodology is explained and you can manually double check anything you'd like. I'm ok having Stephen or any single person run the system, but the ability to see and check the results is crucial.

    I also like that this system does not try to be relational. With nations and players frequently entering and leaving the simulation, relational econ just doesn't work. We need to have our RP actions affect each other, but maintain enough statistical independence that nations/players coming and going do not impact overall stability. RL guidance has limits in a simulation, like not having nations magically appearing or vanishing.

    There are obviously RP things that I'd like to see incorporated somehow, like trade balance and the effects of trade deals, but this is just a start.

  • i completely support this system, but the "Exchange Rate" to home currency does not differ as much as real world currencies. Maybe change that do differ more?

  • Based on the current circumdances, I do support this system. I do applaud the United Kingdom in their efforts to make a strctured, organized, linear system to work with. However, I would like to see further progress in the future.

  • Admin

    Why should they differ more when the gap between NSEU economies is far smaller than the gaps found in RL?

  • If you mean the difference in GDP, that's mostly irrelevant to the value of a currency. If i'm not mistaken.

  • Admin

    No, I mean overall economies. RL has very few stable, developed countries, and LOTS of extremely poor, extremely undeveloped ones. NSEU has lots of stable, developed countries, and very, very few at the low end. The vast majority of players don't want a basket case for a nation, so the simulation is biased toward healthy economies. If the gap between currencies widens, there should be an actual RP reason for it, not just because there's a wider gap in RL.

  • You also got to consider that we are not the only nations in the world. A large percentage of European Countries are really developed, and most of the economies in Europe are developed(to some degree) so, it is reasonable to say that it is possible that it makes scene why a lot of people here are developed.

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    @Kalmar There is no world outside of the EU in this universe. Sorry.

  • The why do we have foreign embassies

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    @Kalmar They serve a quasi OOC purpose.

  • So beyond the Ural Mountains, is there just black void and you die if you try to pass it. What is beyond the map? Does it serve an RP purpose to cut off the world like that?

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    @Kalmar said:

    So beyond the Ural Mountains, is there just black void and you die if you try to pass it. What is beyond the map? Does it serve an RP purpose to cut off the world like that?

    Yes - we're the European Union. We used to have a world map and a sister region called the EU Overseas Territories, but it was never very successful and basically served as a puppet park, so we've gone back to a map that displays only a portion of the world. The vestiges of it survive in the 'America'-like mini-continent in the west of the map. What goes on in the shaded-out fringes of the map (which we've decided to have instead of having nations that go over the edges of the map and therefore have undefined borders - the Duxburian Union, for example, never had a defined southern border until this map) isn't really explained in the RP, and the same goes for all the unoccupied plots. They're simply irrelevant to the RP.

    That, however, has nothing to do with the existence of other regions - we've never attempted to place them on the map or in the same world beyond the map, not least because they have their own maps and their own worlds. We sort of acknowledge the existence of other regions in the RP - so a Commission candidate might talk about wanting to maintain strong relations with 10000 Islands and Canada, for instance - but they have no bearing on the RP otherwise, and we can't integrate them into our conception of the RP world because it wouldn't work and, really, there's no need to. Would we only count the regions we have embassies with? What happens when they change? Etc.