[Discussion] Condemn the Spanish invasion of Reitzmag's sovereignty
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I'm not sure, I'm not the one with this grievance.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
I believe this should be treated carefully. For what I do know and made up from earlier statements I can't say the Spanish government intervened in the national politics of Reitzmag.
Condemning elections in another EU-member state or nation isn't getting involved, especially because the measurements taken by the Spanish government, as the condemnation of the elections, happened after the announcement of the results, thus didn't influenced the voting conduct of the eligible voters in Reitzmag.
Another thing I would like to say is that whenever we congratulate, like my government did to the newly elected premier of Eastern Haane, does it means that we are getting involved in national politics of another nation? And if we came hypothetical to an agreement with a newly elected head of state or government, does it means that my government used this to get involved within national politics of another nation?
I would like to suggest to start talks with one and each other to find a common understanding before, in stead of sanctioning and condemning or turning to the ECOJ.
Thank you.
Mrs. Azaya Dubecq,
EU-Councilor for Nofoaga -
Coun. Dubecq, you might have misunderstood. The Spanish Government, specifically President Aguilar said that the sanctions would last a year because they believe that my election was unjust due to its nature of being very rushed. And I believe that they may be trying to do this to elect a different person in my position. I also want to emphasize that they weren't congratulating me and instead is questioning my election and the process involved in it.
Friedrich van Allen
Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag -
Well dear collègue, when I hear you speaking I do hear the words "I believe". Actions like these shouldn't be build on "I believe" but "I have proof that, and thus..."
Could we say that turning to ECoJ in order to obtain the withdraw of measurements taken by another nation is getting involved in politics of that nation too, because we don't like it? I would like to clear that out, Mr. Speaker.
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I suggested the ECoJ because the Court could give a ruling on on whether the Spanish President actually did something unlawful. I never said it deserved to be a case or whether it would be a good case. In fact, I think this whole thing is silly which is why I brushed it off anyway.
The President of Spain is absolutely allowed to comment on a foreign election. Heads of state and government do it all the time. Many leaders outright tweet their support of a certain candidate or even give in-depth interviews supporting a candidate. It's a complete norm in the European Union.
The Spanish President's comments were neither unlawful nor were they unusual by this region's standards.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
Thank you for your answer, Mr. Speaker.
Mrs. Azaya Dubecq
EU-Councilor for Nofoaga -
I object Mr. Speaker that it was a comment. I have proof that Mr. Aguilar used it as a reason to lengthen the sanctions against Reitzmag.
Friedrich van Allen
Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag -
The Spanish President and Spain are allowed to lengthen their sanctions for any reason they desire. That is within their jurisdiction. Not that I approve or support them.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
Yes Mr. Speaker, the problem is that their reason for this is the process of electing me in my position which is mandated by Reitzmic law. And I suggest that they are attacking also the democracy in Reitzmag. This law states about the electoral process in Reitzmag and provides directions on electoral processes like a rush election or a regular election.
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Good afternoon all.
This is not a surprise to me. At all, I know that Mr. van Allen acts as his Government Speaker instead of working for his country as we, the other councillors, do. Against the Spanish Government, you only use "I believe". There's no evidence of that, but victimising it's always a good tool to seem sad or even offended, isn't it van Allen?
But let's get into the matter. You have literally said "I believe that this reasoning is a violation of national sovereignty due to the Spanish government's intervention in a foreign elections." Where are the Spanish hackers rigging the vote? Have we sent spies to Reitzmag just to make you being re-elected? Is this a Spanish-Alliens complot against Reitzmag? What's next to say Mr. van Allen? That Spain is composed by Illuminatis and alliens?
We all know that Winston wanted to destroy the European Union, but do you really need to ridiculize yourself and your nation in order to say that a Head of Government can't show his opinions about a foreign country's elections? Is this a kind of joke or a hidden camera? Because if it's not, then Mr. van Allen should start thinking on what he can do for the European Union and the Kingdom of Reitzmag instead of saying that showing your opinion on an election is "an invasion of national sovereignty." And now, I am going to let my turn to Commissioner Juncker, that has accepted my petition to come here.
Donald D. Tusk
Councillor for SpainJuncker stood up and started to talk
Good afternoon all, and thank you Mr. Speaker for letting me talk in this debate as to Councillor Tusk for inviting me into it.
I think we should start thinking on how to solve this problem instead of trying to get a narrower line for hard actions against a nation. We can't allow another war to happen, because that would mean a complete fail of the European Institutions. What will the future generations think about us if there's a Regional War between a bunch of nations faced to eachother? Do we really want to be a shame for those future generations?
That's why I am here, to offer my mediation. I want to announce that I'll be offering some summits to PM Bridges, President Aguilar, the PM from Mennrimiak, both sides of the Icholasen's crisis and everyone that requests a meeting, summit, videocall or a telephone call. We need to solve this, and I hope that I'm having the cooperation of everybody here. We have proven that unity makes us stronger. Let's show the Europeans that we really are unitedr.
Thank you.
Jean-Claude Juncker
Commissioner for Internal Affairs -
Quite the one sided discussion topic title is it not? I typically do not see such titles making it past the interns when they are writing up the agendas but here we are I guess. It isn't the discussion topic which is necessarily wrong, it's the fact that the title seeks to imply there was in fact an invasion of sovereignty between two nations. There wasn't. The title is seeking to help bolster the facts and point of view of one of the claimants.
It is the prerogative of a nation to handle their national security and economic security how they best see fit. There is no EU law on how long sanctions can last, nor should there be one. I fail to see troops of one nation in the other, even if both are now militarizing to an ungodly extent due to their effective sibling rivalry.
I personally submitted a complaint to the speaker, and in that complaint effectively stated that holding an election in four days is not truly democratic. Does that mean I am violating the sovereignty of said nation? No. It does not. The fact of the matter is that this council chamber is being used to further the goals and propaganda of one nation in an attempt to "pull one over" a nation which it is now in a consistent shouting match with. It started over trains, now its about sanctions and elections, in a few weeks no doubt it will be about troops no where close to each of their respective countries.
Get over yourselves. It's embarrassing this union at this point, some of us would like to see the Council put to actual good use. If you wish to prove your opponent is wrong just ignore them and move on, and prove through legitimate actions why you are better.
Something I would like to note, in my entire speech I did not once mention the names of the two nations involved. Read it again and think, you might start to agree that the entire situation is pointless without the personal relationships established with its two participants.
Thank you.
Cllr. Carita Falk
Archrepublic of Vayinaod -
I would like to elevate the voice of my college from Vayinaod. I am in complete agreement. Not only is this exercise pointless and arguably insulting to the Council, but this is unacceptable behavior coming from Hampton City. I suggest if Reitzic Government wishes for peace with Spain, they should start with putting an end to this tabloidesque drama between them and Spain. Be the better man, for God's sake! This sort of behavior that both nations have engaged in has no place in the European Union. I, among my fellow Euorpeans, are done with this petty squabble.
Thank you.
Cllr. Su Tevfik
Exalted Ottoman State -
Although I generally agree with my colleagues, I would like to play devil's advocate for a moment.
Given the context, it is understandable for one to believe that the continuation of the sanctions are a violation of sovereignty - the Spanish government may have had some antipathy toward Cllr. Allen, and thus took action in an attempt to force the government of Reitzmag to remove him. Such a thing would almost certainly be a condemnable act; smaller things have started entire wars.
In reality, however, this makes little sense. The Spanish government has nothing to gain from the removal of Cllr. Allen, nor from the destabilization of the ELDR, which I am sure will at some point eventually be brought up. It is not some sort of demon sent by the EPA specifically to destroy Reitzmag and the voices it has brought to the Union. It is a body that acts of its own accord, a body that makes rational decisions for its own good and perhaps for the good of the Union.
I sincerely hope that this nonsense will be over with soon, for it is beginning to threaten the integrity of the EU.
Martin Bourgaize
Councillor for the People's Confederation of Eastern Haane -
Mr. Bourgaize, what I'd like to clarify it's that the Spanish Government has made a critic because they think that the rush election in Reitzmag is not the best way to do an election in a democratic way. I'm not interested, the Spanish Government is not interested and I think no one here it's interest to kick Mr. van Allen out of the Council, because that could mean the end of the European Union.
Tusk sat down and Juncker nooded to then start talking
We should listen to Ms. Falk and Mr. Tevflik, the ones that have said mostly the same with some differences. We need to stop this, we need to end with this for once at all. But we need mediation. If we don't cease tjis kind of actions we would not see a light at the end of the tunnel because it will never end. We need to remain united, for God's sake. And yes, I'm Spanish, but I'm also a very proud European. And I'm very proud of being everyone's commissioner.
We need to think if we want to destroy Europe or we want to keep it alive. Is it worth to destroy Europe after so many years of history? I think no. And my choice is clear. Let's fight for keeping Europe alive.
Donald D. Tusk
Councillor for SpainJean-Claude Juncker
Internal Affairs Commissioner -
I would just like to say myself that I agree with you, Cllr. Tusk; I was simply trying to play devil's advocate, as I stated previously; trying to, in a way, 'put myself in the shoes' of Cllr. Van Allen and the Reitzmic government.
Again, I hope that this entire situation will be over soon, for it is beginning to threaten the integrity of the EU.
Martin Bourgaize
Councillor for the People's Confederation of Eastern Haane -
My friends, I'd like to clarify that the Spanish government was not just commenting but instead used it as a reason to increase the span of these sanctions and I agree with all of you my colleagues especially Coun. Bourgaize. I am happy to see that Commissioner Juncker is promisiong and offering mediation between the Reitzmic and the Spanish governemnt.
I'd like to emphasize that, I consulted a political analyst about these happenings and he told me that if these conflicts do not stop, this could cause a war between Spain and Reitzmag. Everyone, let us be fruitful and begin to fix this situation before anything worse happens.
Friedrich van Allen
Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag -
Mr. van Allen, the sanctions weren't set to last 3 or 4 months, but the necessary time to make the Kingdom of Reitzmag learn what they really have to do instead of kidnapping Foreign Affairs Ministers, for example. If the sanctions last for a year, then a year it is, if it's 2, then 2 it is. We, the European Council, can't force a member-state Government to do anything but see what they do.
Otherwise, Spain won't enter a war or will start it. Saying that "showing an opinion on a democratic process", a thing that everyone does here when something happens in his country or out of it, it's completely legal. Sanctions were not extended as there's no limit established for them.
Donald D. Tusk
Councillor for Spain
The Kingdom of Spain
