[OOC] EU War System v.5.2 – Discussion Thread
-
What's up everyone!
Because of my ever lasting need for perfection I am currently working on War System v.5.1 or Hot Fix 1.0, the name is a WIP.
Much like the actual content of the update.
The goal of the update will be to flesh out the budget side of the system. I've been playing attention to the war lists released so far and more people are just maxing out their budget with no ill-received effects. (Few RL countries meet that 25% defense budget and most of those have various issues affecting them.)
There's two ways I am looking into resolving that:
-
Method A- Will be that if you max out manpower, defense budget spending (i.e 25% of your government), and the hard cash value of your defense (i.e 5% of your Euro gdp) there will be some form of negative economic multiplier applied in the economic system.
-
Method B- Is taking the government spending in the economic from the Econ system and using that to help figure out what the true maximum of your defense spending should be using the %s . For example if you have a 450 Billion Euro GDP, and your government spends 100 Billion Euros yearly, you shouldn't exceed 25 Billion Euros in defense spending based on pure defense spending percentages, but accounting for the 5% GDP rule with that you should not exceed 22.5 Billion Euros. This would go both ways with the real defense maximum and the Euro GDP maximum working together to sort of balance each other out.
In the end it might end up being a mixture of both, I've been toying with the idea of minor economic modifiers for the econ system but method B I feel (in some version of it) work out to be more effective.
Will update you guys moreso once I got working concepts but for now feel free to submit thoughts.
ALSO coming:
- Producer slot applications
- Space system applications
- Custom unit/class/variant applications
All located on this discussion thread.
-
-
Yo my peoples heres the beta version for the new war system patch please if you got time fill it out and it to me. Give me comments on organization or some other ideas yall might have.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jZItfTbX9e-5qMMHEfuPV41ppiYcK4OI/view?usp=sharing
Some quick notes:
Publicly disclosed changes are as follows:These new defense budget/defense multipliers:
20.01% and above = WAR ADMIN APPROVAL REQUIRED
15.01% to 20% = WAR ADMIN APPROVAL REQUIRED FOR A 1.6 MULTIPLIER
10.01% to 15% = 1.50
7.51% to 10% = 1.25
5.01% to 7.50% = 1.0
2.51% to 5.0% = 0.75
1% to 2.5% = 0.50
0% = 0Please input the newly required info for % of Gov spending in GDP and the actual defense spending % of the government budget.
Please send me the sheet once you complete it.
Negative Econ modifiers do exist but will not be disclosed at this time.
Quick reference on defense spending %s are (in no particular order)
Belarus (the top of the list) 32%
United States 9%
Korea, the REAL South, 12.4%
Saudi Arabia, 25%
UAE 17%
Singapore 17%
Russia 11.4%
Japan 2.5%
France 4.1%
Sweden 2.1%
Norway 3.4$The RL EU has an Average of 3.1%
You should try your best to balance your Defense spending %, Defense Mod to have your Projected IC Budget match your True Budget.
Post any questions here or send them to me on discord: This hotfix will likely be released July 6th or so.
-
System updated! You can use the new war sheet to get your stuff updated, I will be more than happy to help you out.
You get a freebie update with this one, and you aren't required to make an RP posting surrounding the changes.
Check the system thread for details.
-
Forgot to mention that the war list form itself was changed slightly so be sure to double check you are using the right one!
-
Nation Name: United Stars of Valhalla
Link to War List:USV War List
Requested Slot: (Australia)Reasons for approval?: I need this because in RP my nation went through a civil war so we need to arm up for if it to prevent it from happening again and I also fit because I'm an island just like Australia.
-
Approved.
-
Nation Name: Kingdom of Reitzmag
Link to War List: Reitzmag's Data Calculator
Requested Slot: (Check System thread for details) IndiaReasons for approval?: Reitzmag had been occupying the swedish producer slot for about 4 months already due to its status. But things have changed since the past 4 months and Reitzmag has developed greatly in economic, military, and political aspects. An economic boom was experienced in which raised the Euro GDP of Reitzmag to about 400,000,000,000 Euros.
-
Approved.
Reitzmag may update its inventory list to account for its new producer slot (meaning only clarify things you've already purchased not add new items). Nations who have declared purchases in the past from Reitzmag must retain the original swedish purchases. Those purchases are protected for whenever the next swedish producer comes around.
While I got everyone's attention real quick (this is about something aside from the Reitzmag application). I would like to clarify something when it comes to declaring inventory. The only time (aside from updates which are supposed to only be reflective of an adjusted war list not an outright expansion), nations may retroactively add purchases from producers or not do any RP regarding their purchases is when they first make their war list.
AFTER this first time, the expectation is that there is a level of RP surrounding purchasing these new producers. Whether its a news post or a summit, or whatever. There must be RP in regards to adding units or other purchases to your military, and these purchases should include what specifically is being bought to avoid future issues, but I can live without that /sometimes/.
If you adjust numbers by a little thats typically fine,but do not abuse it so I can avoid banning that. Producers I am less so concerned with this as much as nations who buy equipment from other nations and rely on this equipment. For example if you when you first made your war list declared you bought 10 Su-30s from Icholasen, the expectation is that should remain the case and it should not suddenly jump to 35 Su-30s without RP reflecting the fact you illegally bought them with the communist regime.
Basically, avoid editting what equipment you currently have just because you have more generous circumstances to get certain equipment.
What you get is what you get, RP it if you want to change it.
EDIT: I'll be working on a guide on ways to go about RPing war system RP like purchases or battles in the coming days just because I love you all.
-
Nation Name: Union of Duchies
Link to War List: http://nseuropeanunion.com/topic/639/union-of-duchies-warlist
Requested Slot: (Check System thread for details) SpainReasons for approval?: Nation has invested alot in military companies. Being one of the biggest economies and a big military they adopted a policy of Duchy companies first resulting in a build up of contractors.
-
Approved.
-
Nation Name: The Kingdom of Spain
Link to War List: http://nseuropeanunion.com/topic/353/the-kingdom-of-spain-war-list
Requested Slot: (Check System thread for details) SwedenReasons for approval?: Spain has been increasing its military spending since the start of 2020. Recently, Spain was granted with the license to produce nuclear warheads, as proven to be stable (a government was formed after elections) and trustworthy in terms of military deployment (never entered in conflict except in the Eastern Haane intervention).
-
Approved.
-
SYSTEM UPDATE
WAR SYSTEM 5.2 ACTIVE AS OF 20210221
WAR SYSTEM V5.2
MAJOR OVERHAULS
Stealth
-
IC Cost is raised to 75 IC per aircraft from 25 IC
--- Stealth based on my research is extensively more expensive than previous, and this is to allow for a sense of balance to prevent excessive abuse of the ‘Stealth on Everything’ feature currently present. -
Speaking of the ‘Stealth on Everything’ feature, this will now be updated to reflect that the intention of this was similar to real life engineering updates to specific aircraft and ships where the vessel was not designed with stealth in mind but there were minor updates that helped to reduce its radar cross-section a fair bit. See the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet as an example of this principle.
Unless you have a product (like the F-22 for example) which was designed IRL, or RPed to intrinsically involve stealth the same benefits will not be reaped comparedly.
RL/OOC Theoretical Techs
- Technology/Prototype of new defense industry products such as tanks or aircraft that do not have a working prototype in Real Life, and by that specifically a prototype marketed as an the initial version of this product with a projected mass production date within the next five years are hereby banned unless the following is met.
Technologies/Prototypes such as the Japanese F-X program or the Korean F/A-X which fall under this category can still be brought into Rp through direct, long term research RP that slowly results in their admission into RP. This is RP on the timespan of at least a year or two, working with War System admins to slowly phase in the tech, with trial and error, and setbacks to the RP as dictated by the admins.
For example, the newly /somewhat/ discussed US 6th Gen Fighter would not be allowed since the estimated production for it is about 10 years out even though there is a working prototype.
For example, the Indian HAL/AMCA is not allowed since its prototype is not expected for another 3-5 years, with at least 8 from mass production.
For example the US F-15EX would be allowed since it has a working prototype currently, and is expected to enter mass production within the next year.
-
No technologies/prototypes shall be grandfathered in, and any RP mentioning them is still ‘canon’, but use of them in RP is not allowed until the research/development RP and other assorted requirements put on by the admins on a case by case basis are met.
Much like previous war system updates, a ‘refresh’ of war lists is allowed for affected areas specifically. -
Descriptions on Custom Units/Classes/Variants shall be updated to reflect this stance.
Clarification on Producers and their companies
Producer Nations get the Direct Company responsible for their products, if a product overlaps into another company under the same ‘corporate group” (see Boeing with their commercial airplanes and defense airplanes businesses), the producer gets the commercial/civilian counterpart as well. For example, the USA Producer gets General Electric Aviation due to its work in military aircraft engines, but does not get General Electric Healthcare. The producer however owns the brand rights.For specific questions see the War System Mod/Admin Team.
When are we getting S P A C E update?
- Soon, it might be coming up a 'budget' system. Maybe. IDK. Spoilers.
MISC
- Some minor unit description edits.
All these changes are considered live, a new war sheet has been already linked in the main system thread, but here it is for convivence as well.
I will try and get around to updating the system thread on Saturday during my day off, or some other random free time I may find open to me. These notes are otherwise functional for gameplay purposes.
Similar to previous updates, you get two weeks to update your war lists to readjust to the new system. No RP is required as long as its simple numbers adjustment.
Feel free to @ me or @Duxburian-Union with questions either here on the forums or in discord. I will try my best to process timely responses. I'm human so there might be an error somewhere, so please ask questions or point something out!
-
-
Nation Name: State of Kaitsja
Link to War List: Linky
Requested Slot: TurkeyReasons for approval?
Kaitsja due to its poor geostrategic location and as a coastal country having close proximity to nuclear powers and rogue states concerns its security and sovereignty at highest. As planned policy to modernize the military, we seek to acquire quality equipment to complement our armed forces reach. A manufacturing-based economy and large producer of iron-based products, we feel suited to place ourselves as a producer state. -
Nation Name: The Kingdom of Spain
Link to War List: Spanish War List
Requested Slot: (Check System thread for details) GermanyReasons for approval?: Spain has experimented a growth on its Arms Manufacturing stats on NationStates and it no longer fits on the Delta category, meaning that we would like to move forward to the next category and pick a producer slot that fits us a little bit more.
-
Approved.
-
Nation Name: Federal Republic of Yosai
Link to War List: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/2/d/1kjtNtnQZNALvZ2KDdYaNfwbC-oIkLwQL/edit#gid=539296454
Requested Slot: (Check System thread for details) IndiaReasons for approval?: Yosai is a large emerging power, which develops a fairly sized military for the defense of its shores and land. Recently, it has been involved crisis concerning its territorial waters in the Strait of Adventuranza. Having a producer slot will allow Yosai to defend its national interests without reliance from foreign-built equipment.
-
Approved.
-
Nation Name: Mennrimiak
Link to War List: http://nseuropeanunion.com/topic/1165/pohjoisen-valkoinen-armeija-the-mennrimian-royal-army
Requested Slot: (Check System thread for details) TurkeyReasons for approval?: (How does your nation fit the status of the producer? Recent RP History of your nation) The Turkish military could be perfect to improve the Mennrimian military and help our navy, as we are an ocean across from europe the navy is the most important branch of our army and so we rely on it for defense, and i belive the Turkey producer slot would give me an advantage
-
Approved.
The Kingdom of Spain
