Ruthenish Neutrality Motion
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Coun. Michel, I thank you for being on our support on this matter. The decision of the ECoJ in the last Spain vs Reitzmag case must be revoked. However, I see this being against the constitution. A while ago, I received a report that the ECoJ is being challenged for its decision which contradicts the European Constitution and that I am deeply saddened that the decision of the ECoJ may not be appealed.
Friedrich van Allen
Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag -
Michel audibly sighed.
Mr Van Allen, I ask that you do not twist my words. I think you are missing the point of my argument. I'm not supporting you. I'm supporting the proposal made by the Ruthenish delegation. I wholly support the decision made in the case Spain v. Reitzmag, one that was not reached because of Reitzmag's recognition of the UNSR. Again, I strongly encourage you to read the opinion of the court. Reitzmag broke the law. A piece of the act that has no bearing on this debate. No one here has alleged that Ruthund has violated the section of the Condemnation of the Coup in Icholasen Act for which Reitzmag was found in violation of.
As for the petition recently submitted to the court by your government, I will not comment on an ongoing judicial procedure in this chamber. This nonsensical bullshit needs to be set aside so that this Council can truly weigh the merits of Ruthund in gaining neutral status.
To get us back to the actual point of debate here, Ruthund has demonstrated the qualities we should look for in a neutral state. If, Mr Speaker, you are so inclined to deny Ruthund's status as a neutral state on the grounds of violating the Condemnation of the Coup in Icholasen Act ((OOC: We need an acronym)), I would like to see some sort of effort made to bring this violation to the attention of the European Court of Justice or, alternatively, an amendment made to the legislation to clarify the sections in question.
Charles Michel
Councilor for the Kingdom of Fremet
#NordicBros -
Dear colleagues,
I am a great defendor of the sovereignty of every nation, also those within the European Union. Whether a state is neutral or not its up to them. So I understand the demand of Ruthund here.
Nevertheless, when a nation choses to join the EU, that nation isn't neutral anymore. Joining the EU is joining a friendship, a pact, a bound. We chose for each other to help and stand by. Of course like in every friendship there might be some troubles and some time of letting each other. But at the end when the friendship is a true friendship based on commitment and loyalty we do chose for each other. A nation within the EU can't be neutral.
Mrs. Paul-Gabrielle Muzhare
EU Councilor for the Republic of Nofoaga -
I am glad you have shown some consideration to our cause Councilor Muzhare, but I disagree with your interpretation on which the European Union stands. If the European Union were an alliance like you say it is, then why were there acts of aggression, interventions, and even wars on some occasions between Member States? It does not logically follow from face value. Nay, the European Union is an supranational body for which member states work together to preserve peace and promote economic as well as diplomatic cooperation. That is not the same as a binding alliance, even if the European Union does bestow obligations upon it member states. There is nothing (or almost nothing, for that matter) in the EU Constitution that requires a State to be anything other than being located in Europe. Its function is not charged by an agenda or a purpose to promote a particular interest or ideology. Rather, the goal of the European Union, as an institution, is to protect the interests of its member states to the best of its ability. So it upsets me when some Councilors in this room seem to think it is okay to promote interests of their own States or personal aspirations, at the expense of other Member States using the institution of the European Union.
Regardless even if we are to accept your interpretation of the European Union's function, there is nothing contradictory with what I am requesting. If you look at Article VI of the EU Constitution, you will find that nations who have shown that they are capable of caring out the duties of staying neutral during internal disputes can be granted certain protection by the European Union-- most notably the protections of it being illegal to declare War on the Neutral State. And since Councilor, you believe there is no such thing as a Neutral Member-State, then I am sure you will be happy in voting for this motion since me and my colleague have pretty thoroughly demonstrated that Ruthund merits these protections outlined in Article VI and is well-equipped to handle its obligations.
Helhuan Ziharuthstukur
EU Councilor, Ruthund
#NordicBros -
I support this motion, as I too, want to be recognised as nuetral
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I would like to make a comment. Ruthund has in no ways violated the responsibilities of a neutral state. It has not made any acts of aggression toward a member state, nor has it declared any intention to support any such acts of aggression. This is all that should be said; this is all that needs to be said.
But in any case, I must continue. Councillor Falk, who is the author - the author! - of the Condemnation we seem to be so obsessed about - Councillor Falk has stated categorically that the Condemnation does not apply to member states. Until and unless the European Court of Justice rules otherwise, her word on the subject should be final. Councillor Firoux, Councillor Granger; all of you who claim this to be some sort of violation - you are deliberately trying to pervert the meaning of an Act, that has now been made explicit, as to meet your own perverted aims, centered around an irrational wish to restore the United Dominions of Icholasen as soon as possible. This will not happen. The UNSR has established itself firmly; we must now at the very least attempt to control it through reasoned diplomacy. We have dealt with an absolute monarchy that kills the overweight, a capitalist dictatorship, and perhaps worst of all a state whose monarch quite literally massacred his own government. We can deal directly with a communist state that at the very least has shown itself to possess a modicum more reason than these three.
Finally, I must point out the bizarre obsession of Councillor van Allen. This is not the place to go begging for other states to support your cause, a cause that has definitively shown itself to be illegal. Please stop.
I would also like to request a debate extension.
Eugen Freund
Councillor for the Federal Republic of Austria -
I second this request. It has come to my attention not everyone in the chamber has made up their mind yet on this matter.
Helhuan Ziharuthstukur
EU Councilor, Ruthund -
Debate will be extended until 07:45 GMT on October 11th, 2020.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
I have taken great care examining the relevant documents and have come to the same conclusion as Councillors Falk and Michel - that a member-state recognizing the UNSR does not violate the Condemnation of the Coup in Icholasen and that recognition in general does not violate neutrality.
Since the Condemnation chooses to differentiate between "The European Union" and "EU Member-states", I have no choice but to follow the intent of the author in that Section 1, Clause 1 of the Condemnation is intended to apply to the organization as a whole and not to individual member-states.
This also means rejecting the Speaker's interpretation of Article 1, Section 1, Clause 1 of the European Constitution. Member-states are "the European Union" collectively, not individually. Ruthund is not the European Union and cannot recognize the UNSR on behalf of the entire organization, as only the Council can do that. The Council makes decisions for the European Union as an entity, national governments do not, and thus, cannot violate the Condemnation in that way.
Moving on to the Right of Neutrality, I see nothing in that Article that Ruthund has violated. The Article makes no mention of recognizing governments, which by itself shouldn't violate neutrality anyway - recognition does not create or even imply cooperation or alliance. Ruthund isn't working with the UNSR, just recognizing its sovereignty.
Therefore, the Union of Duxburian Dominions is inclined to support Ruthund's status as a neutral state.
Wesley Greene
Councillor of the Duxburian Union -
Illegal do you say Mr. Freund? Are you even losing you own mind? The ECoJ case on the Kingdom of Reitzmag has proven that the ECoJ has a wrong justice system. Those justices at the time of the case gave a verdict of guilty. That is contrary to your beliefs that my country did not violate the condemnation act when HM George I recognized the UNSR publicly. But now you're telling me that what we've done was illegal and what Ruthund, Inquista, and Gallorum has done aren't? You must be insane Mr. Freund and Mr. Michel.
I am an advocate of my country joining the EU but with such words I am forced to ask this institution. What is wrong with you? We give you millions of Euros for a budget and you're asking us for more using an ECoJ case with a wrong decision due to misinterpretation of the law. I am telling you all right now, withdraw your decision or we will leave the EU.
Friedrich van Allen
Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag -
I am sorry to be so blunt, but why exactly are we discussing this here? This has absolutely nothing to do with the neutrality motion, truly nothing. Please stay on topic; ask the Court of Justice for an appeal if you are so inclined. The European Council has absolutely no jurisdiction over these matters. We cannot in any way "withdraw our decision," nor can we force the ECoJ to.
As for my beliefs - and those of the ECoJ - they are not in any way contradictory. One can recognize the UNSR as much as one wants to - but one cannot engage in military trade agreements with it, as Reitzmag did. Those of us who agree with this interpretation, a group which include the very author of the condemnation, are, as such, consistent, logical, and not in any way insane.
I must once again ask you to stop.
Eugen Freund
Councillor for the Federal Republic of Austria -
I echo the statements made by Councilor Freund. I have no opinion on this issue, however I find it somewhat self-serving that Councilor Van Allen is redirecting the conversation to his own country. If he truly wants a proper discussion on this matter, I suggest he picks another time and not this meeting.
Helhuan Ziharuthstukur
EU Councilor, Ruthund -
I kindly direct Councillor van Allen to the European Constitution:
I. The European Court of Justice is the supreme judicial authority of and in the European Union.
Supreme - the Court's interpretations of European law overrule whatever opinions the rest of us may have. The Council has no judicial power anyway and yes it's totally irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Wesley Greene
Councillor of the Duxburian Union -
Therefore Mr. Greene, the ECoJ has decided that the interpretation of the Condemnation act shall require all member-states to not recognize the UNSR or they may be taken to the ECoJ. Well then, it seems I have I think 3 countries to take to the ECoJ.
Friedrich van Allen
Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag -
You are ranting, Councillor van Allen. Your country made a military trade agreement with the UNSR, and for that it was fined. Ruthund has not done so; it has only recognized the UNSR, and thus is free of crime.
Please pay closer attention to the rulings of the ECoJ, as well as to what we have been repeating endlessly to you for the past few days.
Eugen Freund
Councillor for the Federal Republic of Austria -
Voting on this motion begins NOW and end at 06:45 GMT on October 15th, 2020.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
On behalf of the Kingdom of Spain, I ABSTAIN on this motion.
Donald D. Tusk
Councillor for Spain -
I am FOR this motion
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On behalf of the Kingdom of Fremet, I vote FOR this motion.
Charles Michel
Councillor for the Kingdom of Fremet -
On behalf of the Republic of Nofoaga, I vote AGAINST this motion.
Mrs. Paul-Gabrielle Muzhare
EU Councilor for the Republic of Nofoaga
The Kingdom of Spain