Discussion Regarding Incidents In the Republic of Istkalen

[UK and California]

Well...I think the British government wants no part of this after being demonised over Svarna Surya. Good luck with the toothless Council. Britain will not contribute anything.

[BrumBrum]

We the United Duchies want no part of this. Our experience of jumping the gun in Svarna Surya a bit too quick is an example of what can go wrong even with noble intentions. We believe it is best to leave Istkalen to sort out its internal issues and if Istkaleners do die because of inaction at least that blood is not on our hands. Better 1000 die through inaction than 1 person die through a military intervention unless there is an active genocide or military war crime going on or the nation is a threat to other EU member nations.

Even if we wanted to we do not believe a vote in the United Duchies parliament of 75% + 1 would pass in favour of joining a military intervention which we must have to even send troops on peace keeping missions in absence of a direct attack on either allied member states militaries, coastguard or territories in order to be involved without a vote. This was passed to prevent rash judgements and emotionally charged humanitarian arguments resulting in more damage than good to the nations people in the name of saving lives instead focusing on the direct impact on lives a military operation can cause. We ask the EU member states to act with caution as there is no evidence of an ongoing genocide at this moment and even if there was a few thousand being killed would that justify perhaps 10's of thousands of deaths in Istkalen from a military operation. Remember every direct death in Istkalen from a military operation is on the member states who participate even if 1,000,000 die in a civil war or genocide then it wouldn't be on other nations.

I would also suggest sanctions are premature and unlikely to pass anyway given their status in the Union and economic threat that would pose given their control over rare earths and important metals for the green transition . There is no evidence as of yet of severe human rights abuses but even if their was in the future we'd need to be careful about the cost of sanctions on the people of both Europe and Istkalen.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe, Councillour for United Duchies.

[Istkalen]

Let it be clear: I am opposed to the imposition of these policies. However, they are yet to pass into law - the National Assembly has yet to vote on them. I am well acquainted with many of its members, and find it unlikely that these most controversial provisions will be accepted.

I think it is best to wait for the Assembly to vote and for the National Salvation Council to respond before taking any action.

Iras Tilkanas
Council Speaker and Councillor for the Republic of Istkalen

[BrumBrum]

I believe even if they were to take effect there any sanctions or military operations would hurt the people of Istkalen more. Remember if people die as a result of domestic policy thats on Istkalen , if Europe intervenes and sanctions the blood is on Europes hands. The only reason Svarna Surya was sanctioned harshly and intervened in militarily was because they done a poisoning on foreign soil showing a clear threat to Europeans everywhere and the similar was the case with UNSR who were a threat intelligence operative wise elsewhere in Europe. Istkalen does not meet this criteria. Even if they were tomorrow to institute internal repression, wouldn't it be hypocritical to sanction them for it while not sanctioning nations like North Diessan and Inimicus who are also of similar dubiousness. Its not like there are not undemocratic nations in the EU currently unsanctioned or intervened in. You must ask what threat is Istkalen to Europe, I see no evidence of such a threat frankly.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe, Councillour for United Duchies

[Elthize]

Let me be clear that military intervention is out of the question. It will not happen. We must take the peaceful route and not be part of escalating the situation. I would prefer the negotiation table before sanctions or, once again, military intervention.

In addition, The European Court of Justice is going through elections as we speak. Should they end, the institution must tackle the laws in contradiction with our constitution if they pass.

I would also like a little less sass in these discussions, please.

---

Wirt Harland
Internal Affairs Commissioner of the European Union

[BrumBrum]

And let me be clear there should be no punishment unless there is a clear threat to European security or they have attacked another sovereign nation neither of which is true in Istkalen. If the EU starts condemning and punishing Istkalen for human rights abuses domestically then it needs to do so with multiple breachers nations like Czech Slavia , Inimicus, Svarna Surya and North Diessan who all have democratic flaws. You have to condemn all equally or none at all so which is it you gonna condemn them all today and call for action on all or be a hypocrite. The reason we went against Svarna Surya is they poisoned children in ECON territory therefore they were a direct threat to ECON , Duchian and European security. Istkalen doesn't fit this criteria. Why should Europe intervene militarily or in sanctioning just because there is potential for a few thousand to die in Istkalen. It's not Europe's business what happens solely within Istkalen.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe, Councillur for United Duchies

[Istkalen]

I think it would be nice to listen to some other viewpoints. It would be immensely helpful for progressive negotiators in this crisis at home to hear something other than "no intervention! no intervention!" from this Council.

Iras TIlkanas
Council Speaker and Councillor for the Republic of Istkalen

[Gadalland and Aspern]

Our Brætha have made the decision to recognise the NSC as the government of Istkalen in the event of a change in authority. We are of the mind that while it is surely right to challenge these oppressive laws, which we certainly plan to do should they come into force, for Sertia engaging in violence or covert manipulation will only serve to make the issue worse.

In addition, we have determined that sanctions are not an appropriate Sertian response. We want to be able to help the people of Istkalen through this difficult time by providing what aid we can, if possible, and this takes precedence over making an international statement of condemnation.

We currently have an active Civilian Maritime Force stationed in the Kingdom of Reitzmag, which we plan to continue to support. The CMF will provide help to refugees from Istkalen to apply for asylum in Sertia.

Any assistance in these efforts already ongoing would be much appreciated.

To the British Councillor, it's rather silly that you'd sacrifice the wellbeing of EU citizens because you've been emotionally abused. We have had countries knocking down our door in an attempt to pervert our course of government, including you, but we stand tall and do what we can do with what we've got. Your idleness will be remembered.

Cllr. Dína
ERE BACH'AIR DÙN

[Istkalen]

Under strong pressure from the NSC, the National Assembly has indeed passed a number of these barbaric, discriminatory, and anti-democratic laws.

I am at a complete loss. Domestic efforts to preserve the rule of law have clearly failed. I appeal to this Council to take action over the deterioration of the situation in Istkalen, whether that be negotiation or even, if the NSC proves unwilling to stand down, sanctions.

Iras Tilkanas
Council Speaker and Councillor for the Republic of Istkalen

[BrumBrum]

I am concerned sanctions will hurt Istkalen. While it may seem appealing to place sanctions or take some sort of action and comforting to be seen "doing the right thing". I have still yet to see evidence Istkalen are a threat to Europe itself. They are not killing people on foreign soil or presenting a national security threat of foreign soil as of yet. We may I fear in attempts to help hurt the very people we are trying to help. The best action is to accept LGBT and political refugees if they appear.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe, Councillour for United Duchies