EU Sanctions package on Svarna Surya Act 2022

BrumBrum

I see you are essentially working on the side of the Svarnan military then. If we strip this down and don't sanction properly then the military can continue their oppression its that simple. I would like to ask how you propose the people oppose their government when its the government with the tanks , guns and missiles and the government with with intelligence apparatus in the community. They have it all stacked against them with no oppurtunity to actually protest, indeed simply protesting can get whole families killed in one go making organisation difficult since the person they meet up with or link up with could be a double agent. This is how the dictatorship works there, and how do we know? We have refugees tell us , we have official files handed over to our intelligence agencies by a very brave individual. How do you propose the average family man or woman stands up to that sort of regime.

If you say the people should decide they have , they want help, they want the assistance to neutralise the regimes capability to opress so they can protest and rise up and you are are opposing that . When a people are opressed so badly and have no chance of fighting on their own sometimes one needs to step in and assist, the Svarnans want EU help right now , are you against economic and military sanctions and on the side of the Svarnan government backing your amendment which would essentially allow the Svarnan government to continue their oppression domestically or are you on the right side of history and on the side of the democracy and freedom loving majority in Svarna Surya who are opressed and therefore supportive of sanctions? Who do you back the military or the people , if you vote against sanctions you are nothing but an impeder of the peoples ability to free themselves.Also I don't believe those are narrow definitions of democracy they are the definition of democracy , freedom of speech, freedom of protest and freedom of media. The standards most agree are democratic norms.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe , Councillor for United Duchies

Czech Slavia

Councillor Mizrachi-Roscoe should first focus on the gross violations of human rights that are happening in his own country, such as large-scale arrests and the extraordinarily cruel treatment of the prisoners, before judging others and attempting to starve ordinary civilians. The Union should serve to promote mutually beneficial co-operation, not prevent it.

Sofie Čikarová
Councilor for Czech Slavia

BrumBrum

There is no large scale arrests or cruel conditions in the United Duchies. We are a full democracy that respects freedom of speech. It is true there have been large scale arrests of New Dawn and some far left terrorists and that some prisoners are in solitary confinement for their own safety or the safety of other inmates and societies but we try to limit that. Would you have us not arrest extremists who are plotting and conducting terrorism and violence against minorities or innocent civillians in society?

I will stand with Svarnan citizens who need a helping hand to stop the rich elite benefitting from international trade and Svarnan companies benefitting from international trade alot of whom especially at the highest end are in league with the government. I will judge torture , heat exhaustion death chambers and burying people alive as cruel and evil and we have evidence of all of this in Svarna Surya. Yes unfortunately an economic recession will result in loss of jobs and issues with supplies but its temporary pain in order to bring down a government and its ability to govern and fight and equalise the playing field. Maybe if you are so concerned about certain sanctions you should amend the act to get rid of those you find objectionable. I ask you also are you going to be part of the Svarnan military side in the EU and against sanctions or for the actual people of Svarna and vote for the the sanctions. If you vote against you are ignoring the people of Svarna Surya and the refugees crying out for the help and crying out for sanctions to enable them to fight against their government and the business elite of Svarna Surya that are in league with the government,

James Mizrachi-Roscoe, Councillor for United Duchies

Inquista

Comrade Čikarová is right to point out the hypocritical violations of human rights in the United Duchies, which requires immediate address from Councillor Mizrachi-Roscoe. My honourable comrade is also right to call for a measured and equally beneficial approach to this situation, rather than immediately employing what seems to be total and suffocating isolation, which will ultimately impact the people of Svarna Surya more than its government.

Svarna Surya and its people are members of the European Union. Why are we thrashing our fellow Europeans so viciously? This sanctions package seems intent on entirely collapsing the economy of the country, and the livelihoods of the working class people of Svarna Surya, who seem especially vulnerable and oppressed, will be the ones who bare the brunt of it. Countless lives could be lost and many more could become impoverished.

If the crimes of the government of Svarna Surya are indeed true, then it makes sense to eject them from our Union, since it's clear that they are violating the Constitution and spirit of our Union on a multitude of levels. However, anything beyond that requires peaceful and meaningful dialogue with Svarna Surya.

Bp. Karinn Lallana
Councillor for Inquista

Spain

I do believe we are going a little bit too far here. Cllr. Mizrachi-Roscoe, this act seems to be, as Councillor Lallana said, an attempt to blow up the economy of a member of the European Union at the cost of the oppressed people that have to deal with an allegedly corrupt Government, that is suspected of committing crimes that are against the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

That said, it is worth noting that everytime something horrible happens in Europe, the same two nations are involved: the United Duchies, coming in with their new motto: "we love human rights" and Reitzmag, the nest of all troubles and issues in the European Union. Nevertheless, it is worth saying that the United Duchies should not be so proud of their human rights conception, as they have largely arrested politicians from left-wing parties for "crimes" we do not know about. Or Reitzmag, that intervenes in every single regional conflict even if nobody requests their presence or if they are not welcomed there.

The Kingdom of Spain will therefore not support this act. It is unacceptable to us as it is originally written, and we would rather choose the version that Speaker Tilkannas has proposed as an amendment. There is no other way that Spain would support the act, that by the way, should be renamed if the Amendment from the Speaker of the European Council is passed.

Donald Tusk
Councillor for Spain

BrumBrum

The problem with dialogue with Svarna Suryan government is they have no interest in such dialogue and as long as their elite can benefit economically from their crimes against the Svarnan people then there will be continued opression from the government. Yes sanctions are going to hurt but the victims at the bottom end are already poor and suffering this is to make the elites poor . The truth is anything other than the toughest sanctions are just not enough. The only alternative to this is an active regime change to protect the people which we are obviously hesitant today since military action could cause problems of its own for Svarnans.

I am willing to tone down some areas of the sanctions at EU level and remove the ban on internet traffic to and from Svarna Surya but a ban on trade and travel with Svarna Surya is absolutely needed , what are you worried about hurting some innocent rich Svarnan, newsflash there is no innocent rich Svarnan businessman if you are a rich big businessman you are in leage with the military government or allowed by them to succeed because you are complying with their needs, that is not innocent.I'd also like to refute the point we reguarly arrest left wing party members, we don't we arrest those suspected of terror links as one should , just as we have done with New Dawn who's trials are ongoing I'd like to remind you a left wing terror group killed over 3,000 people including my son and made two other members of my family mentally scarred and disabled, what would you propose we do ? Not arrest those we suspect to be supporting the group responsible for that. That would be unfair on the nation and its victims and is wholly different from what Svarna Surya does. We have received thousands of letters from the big Svarnan community of who we get the brunt of the refugees from including one who is the son of a refugee in our cabinet for minister for defense. If you think its too tough tell us what areas you think are too tough or propose amendments but don't back essentially no sanctions and become a 5th column acting in the interests of the Svarnan military and business elite who are committing the horrific crimes against humanity and slavery against the Svarnan people.I have already put in provisions for humanitarian agencies to go into Svarna and be exempted so people won't starve or die.

However to ease some concerns I shall propose the following amendment to Article 2:
IV. All members of the EU shall be required to ban all companies registered within their country from any trade with Svarna Suryan companies or ~~any companies owned by Svarnan citizens~~ owned by collaborators with the Svarnan regime and all companies registered in the EU shall be required to end all business deals with Svarna Surya and cut all business ties

~~VIII. All members of the EU shall be required to cut off all internet traffic to and from Svarna Surya~~
James Mizrachi-Roscoe Councillor for United Duchies

BrumBrum

James Mizrachi-Roscoe:I call three witnesses who shall now testify Anya Tata 13 , Ayush Harish 32 and Saanvi Misra 19. They are three brave people an yes Tata has chosen to come here today to testify against her father and the government despite the great risk. I have repeatedly checked this is what she wants and she does , she came to me talking about the events that took place. Will now give the floor to them to give statements and for you to ask questions afterwards.

Anya Tata:My name is Anya Tata son of the billionaire Ranjit Tata who is one of the biggest supporters of our so called "democratically elected president " Neha and the military. I want to tell you today why sanctions are needed, the way things work and why doing nothing is not an option.

I face peril including possible death for this but I cannot hide away and let the tyrannical regime silence me. That would not be honouring my brother and Rahuls sacrifice. I have seen my brother die crossing the channel witnessed meetings where Tata have discussed their collaboration with the government. They are in league , every big business is if you are a millionaire you are only allowed to do so because you are either collaborating and not a threat to the military and their despotic regime or a supporter. The regime gets their money from businesses like my fathers , that is why sanctions are so important the only way to collapse government and help the people resist is to remove their lifeline, their money, their weapons , their ammunition sold to them , in short to crush the economy and ability to make money. While they have outside trade we cannot fight them , they have tanks , guns a whole secret apparatus to break up protest movements before they can even mass recruit or organise . If you vote against sanctions in this chamber the only people you benefit are the Nehas and the Tatas and the generals. They will be the only people who will get a significant slice of the money the truth is most people especially the lowest castes will get a pittance like they always have anyway but if you vote for sanctions it will help us, we can fight back , we can take up arms , we can mass protest ,we can fight back and take down this regime so please back these sanctions don't let the many sacrifices of those for freedom be in vein. Also I'd like to speak about the need to have democracy in any constitution in return for taking off sanctions its essential democracy is forced on the government , they will not do so themselves and without constitutional protection and the removal of any military and arms from the country the military can just take power again and will so please , please support this.

Ayush Harish : My name is Ayush Harish a former member of the parliament for Svarnan National Congress party. It will not shock you to know the elections were not fair and our defeat in losing all seats was sealed and planned beforehand by the system. There was no democratic protections , we faced harassment , threats and threats against our family. I left when my son was took on the way to school , he was just 14 , within a day his hand was sent to my door. This is the type of government in charge but I will not stay silent, yes my family won't be safe but until this government is gone noones will be and we cannot stand up while they are armed and receiving billons and tens of billions in trade, the truth is if you allow trade to continue if you vote against sanctions you will doom the people of Svarna to the continued long slow fight and be responsible for many 100's of thousands of deaths into the future so support these sanctions, we need help , please help us.

Saanvi Misra:My name is Saanvi, I left on boats after my messages were discovered . I had to run I have since been subject to threats against my family and I fear everyday that someone will kill me here from the intelligence services. You need to help its not enough to stop extradition to stop agents getting access here if they can just keep the weapons to target our families back home and the money to finance the terror machine back home, you need to cut off the resources and cut off the money supply , only sanctions on the most extreme level can do that. Yes people will get hurt short term but people are hurting anyway, don't think by allowing the system to continue as is to prevent "loss of income" for the lowest paid and working class you would help , all you would do is continue their perpetual slave like conditions and oppression. You either vote with us and support sanctions or vote against sanctions and support them thank you.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe: I would like to now open the floor to questions for our speakers.

Elthize

Expecting an authoritarian state controlled mainly by the military to be a democracy by isolating it via harsh sanctions is optimistic at best, and actively harmful at worst. If this bill passes in unamended form- which I highly doubt- there is a high chance that it will backfire, resulting in either an even more repressive regime that completely isolates its citizens from the outside world or a total civil war. We're talking about the lives of sixty million people. Thus, we need to be careful with the precautions that we're taking.

However, I am also appalled at the fact that some councillors here are considering placing no sanctions on the regime at all. Shouldn't the high-ranking officials and those that collaborate with the Svarnan regime be punished? Is that fair to those that suffer under this vicious governance? How ethical is it to do business with a government that terrorizes its citizens beyond borders? How ethical is it to do whataboutism, comparing the United Duchies' attempts at combating extremism to Svarna Surya's absolute tyranny?

I am willing to support the bill in Councillor Tilkanas' amended form, as it is far less extreme. However, it feels too much like a slap on the wrist, and I will propose further amendments later.

Liam Zachary
Councillor for The State of Elthize

Istkalen

To be clear, I am not against the imposition of sanctions on Svarnan officials, who are clearly guilty of horrific crimes against their citizenry as well as the European population. However, in the past, there has been extreme controversy over this type of diplomatic sanctions, and I would prefer to prioritize measures against the active threat of Svarnan espionage over them, to ensure that as much can be done as is possible.

Iras Tilkanas
Council Speaker and Councillor for the Republic of Istkalen

UK and California

I will support this but just a heads up: the United Kingdom might launch an aerial campaign.

Ed Miliband
Councillor for The United Kingdom

BrumBrum

To all those who who oppose sanctions I want to make clear the stakes here. There are two options this sanctions bill or military intervention. Duchies will not stand by and do nothing. Now we prefer to go with sanctions and to force change that way but any of you voting against this bill , let it be known you will be the ones responsible for any military intervention that takes place. So you have your choice sanctions or military intevervention. Which will it be for you?

James Mizrachi Roscoe, Councillor for United Duchies

Duxburian Union

The Union of Duxburian Dominions must oppose the sanctions package, simply because we cannot physically or technologically comply with all the provisions. The Duxburian government literally does not have that level of control over our society and cannot take all of those actions. We can close our borders, ban specific individuals, close our airspace and ports, but private and civil society have strong freedoms. We can't cut off the internet, freeze or seize assets, block payments, or force dis-association. These things are heavily decentralized and the people hold the keys (literally when it comes to funds). We also certainly won't fine domestic companies 5% of their revenue for things we can't control and don't regulate. Even if we could, Duxburian law doesn't allow assesment of fines unless the violation itself is financial.

Sanctions, if they are used at all, should be less detailed and more up to member-states to implement in the ways they actually can.

Wesley Greene
Councillor-General of the Duxburian Union

Istkalen

The Prime Minister has informed me that the goverment of Istkalen will take action in the case of an intervention in Svarna Surya. We insist upon the preservation of national and popular sovereignty at all costs, and are strongly opposed to any attempt to impose a government, by force, on any population.

Iras Tilkanas
Council Speaker and Councillor for the Republic of Istkalen

UK and California

@BrumBrum wll we did it anyway.

Istkalen

Cllr. Mizrachi-Roscoe threatened a military intervention if we did not pass his package, but his country has launched one anyways. There is therefore no point, in my opinion, in continuing to engage with this act. It clearly was not proposed in good faith, and, regardless, now has no purpose.

Please, let us put an end to this farce.

Iras Tilkanas
Council Speaker and Councillor for the Republic of Istkalen

BrumBrum

We did want to wait until the passage of this but circumstances changed with the taking of boats which is a threat to all our shipping routes and stability of shipping in the region , this is still needed as it would enable the crushing economically of the regime to make it easier for democratic freedom fighters to fight back. We do not intend to put troops in the whole country as that would benefit no one. We simply aim to temporarily take enough territory thats defendable to create an evacuation corridor and safely host headquarts of pro-democracy groups temporarily. Its true we want them military regime gone, primarily because it is acting as a rogue state and a threat to the whole of Europe and its own people.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe, Councillor for United Duchies

UK and California

The United Kingdom will aid this in the air.

Inquista

Comrade Tilkanas has succinctly described this farce for what it is. I am rather disappointed to see a colleague put forward a proposal in such bad faith, clearly saying one thing, but practicing something else in the shadows. I can't help but feel this proposal was put forward so that the war machines and military-industrial complexes that Cllr. Mizrachi-Regime-Change-War-Roscoes so enthusiastically supports could buy time for their invasion.

Here we are yet again, without any proper Council discussion or any investigation of events, and member states of the EU have instantaneously decided to mobilize and invade another member state of the EU. War first, peace last, as is typical of our Union.

I condemn this invasion and I mourn for every life that will be lost from this fiasco. I condemn those who sully our Council chamber by so shamelessly and clumsily discussing war plans, invasions, and and air raids in front of the European people.

This proposal has been both a deception and a waste of our time. It should be withdrawn. We should now fully focus on reaching peace as soon as possible, bringing humanitarian assistance to the country, and ensuring the utmost minimal loss of life.

Bp. Karinn Lallana
Councillor for Inquista

Inimicus

I find myself, for once, agreeing with Cllr Lallana. While discussions around common sanctions are ongoing, unilateral action from a couple of member states have already led to armed conflict. The purpose of this Act is therefore null and void. Not to mention that the EU has an established procedure of implementing region-wide sanctions under the European Commission (Sanctioning Powers) Act, and as such introducing an Act such as this is beyond superfluous.

I will oppose passage of this Act. The Empire of Inimicus hopes for a speedy end to this useless conflict.

Nicholas Benfield
Empire of Inimicus

BrumBrum

After consultation with many councillors I withdraw this sanctions package following evidence that negotiations are to take place. This is a gesture of goodwill to enable peaceful negotiations. I also call on United Duchies government to garuntee no military operations will ever be restarted in the interests of peace. I would like to note however this does not mean I support Svarna Suryas actions and human rights record. Svarna Surya needs change and needs to respect democratic and human rights norms and I hope they can work with parties inside and outside to have genuinely democratic and free and fair elections.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe , Councillor for United Duchies