Banning of Conversion Therapy Act
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Debate on this legislation begins NOW and will last until 22:00 GMT May 30th, 2020.
I wholeheartedly support this Act, and agree with the premise that conversion therapy is both torturous and abusive. I am proud to say that conversion therapy was recently banned in Inquista, and I believe that this ban should be extended across Europe on the basis that torture has already been outlawed across the EU in our Constitution, which should include conversion therapy practices.
With that said, I have a few nit-picky things to say. Formatting wise, I'd appreciate it if Section II, Clause I was properly numerated and if the the second sentence ended with a period.
Section III, Clause I and IV also seem somewhat inconsistent with one another. I suppose what this Act is trying to say, is that the member states must close services involving conversion therapy in 48 hours, but have 6 months to codify that into law? As I mentioned earlier, torture is already illegal under our Constitution, and if we are to recognize conversion therapy as such, then it probably means it ought to illegal immediately rather than in 6 months. I think it would be preferable to just removed Section III, Clause IV altogether.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
Based on the constructive criticism of Mr Firoux, I am proposing the following amendments:
SECTION II - ENSURING PROTECTION
I. It is the duty of member states and their governments to protect people from conversion therapies and other practices based around conversion therapies. The member state and their government shall uphold this duty by ensuring that these practices are not performed.
SECTION III - IMPLEMENTATION AND ENFORCEMENT
IV. All member states of the European Union are required to adjust their national law(s) with this Act
in 6 months fromimmediately after its approval by the European Council.Kent Evergreen
European Councillor of The Malboryan Republic -
These are great amendments. They've remedied my nit-picky concerns and they will have my full support. I thank the Councillor for writing them.
Furthermore, as the Speaker of the European Council, I also want to offer my belated congratulations to Councillor Evergreen on his election as Councillor. I want to commend the Councillor's eagerness to legislate and his willingness to immediately become active member of our Council, and I commend him for legislating on such an important issue.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
Good afternoon all.
Firstly I would like to welcome Councillor Evergreen to Europolis. Malborya it's a very important ally for Spain and we want to continue this relationship in Europolis. And now, I'm going to get into the matter of today, the Banning of Conversion Therapy Act.
This act needed some amendments that Councillor Evergreen has brought up on time, which will make the proposal even perfect than it was when it was introduced to the debate. And we need this act, because the European Union protects the rights of the millions of Europeans that are into the LGTBI+ collective. And we need to stop this detrimental therapies, because it does nothing but making people confused about their sexuality, and some who got this therapies as a compulsory things because his or her fathers imposed them might even take suicide. And that's something we can't allow, and we won't thanks to this act.
So, Councillor Evergreen, thank you for this act. I'm sure that millions of Europeans will thank you for doing this.
Donald D. Tusk
Councillor for Spain -
Cllr Tupac Shakur stood to speak
I'd like to start by requesting an extension to the debate period.
This is, first of all, not an issue that Europolis should be dealing with. The European Council should be about empowering member states, not giving them an ever-increasing list of things they must and must not do. Dragan Trympov energised millions of people across the EU with this message, and Europolis has not paid one blind bit of notice.
Should I be allowed, I'd like at least to propose some amendments.
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If it pleases the chamber, I'll continue.
Europolis likes to pretend it has democratic legitimacy. We force, now, our councillors to be directly elected, separate to the legitimate governments they used to represent. We create this never-ending list of laws that our governments, democratically elected for the most part, have to apply. But there's a democratic deficit at the heart of Europolis. The EU is not a nation and it never will be; and councillors do not represent equal numbers of constituents.
If we want Europe to survive, let alone Make Europe Great Again, we need Europolis to ease off with the directives to the member states, because soon enough, the member states will start ignoring us. They might even question our legitimacy.
This is not necessarily about the merits of so-called 'conversion therapy'. Some may argue that it is torture, some may disagree. Some may argue that it should be banned, some may argue that an adult should be free to try whatever form of quack 'treatment' he likes. The preamble of this Bill calls the validity of these practices 'often questionable', which is not the strongest language I've heard. This is about whether we believe Europolis is the best place to make the law on this, or whether it's our national legislatures. What are we electing our governments and legislators back home for, if we won't let them decide on anything?
But I'm not stupid, and I can count, so I may as well seek to amend the Bill. The first point I'll make is that this has huge scope as it stands to shut down any gender identity clinic that does not push patients towards a transgender identity. There is some evidence that many people, especially children, with gender dysphoria can and do reconcile their gender and their biological sex. Under this Bill as it stands, exploring this line of treatment would be impossible - either it would be classed as torture under the law, or, if not, activist groups would draw clinics and medical practitioners into lengthy and expensive legal disputes by alleging that's the case. And even before then, the fear of those scenarios would deter practitioners from doing their jobs to the best of their ability.
This is a complex issue, and it is, therefore, best decided by our own governments, our own legislatures, and our own peoples. Therefore, I'd like to propose the following amendment:
Definitions, remove after 'sexual orientation', and add 'used as a way to turn lesbian, gay, and/or bisexual people heterosexual'.I'd also like to take issue with some aspects of Section III, including Cllr Evergreen's proposed amendment. I don't know what the legislative process is in Malborya or Inquista, but in Pravoslaviya we can't change our laws 'immediately'. Six months is a perfectly reasonable timeframe. As such I'd like to propose the following alternative:
Section III, Clause I, replace '48 hours' with 'six months'Moreover, Clause III is superfluous, since failure to implement any Act of the European Council is a breach of the Constitution that can be prosecuted in the ECoJ. Which leads me to propose the following amendment:
Section III, Clause III, remove entire clauseWhile, for reasons stated earlier, I oppose this Bill, I believe these amendments would go some way to making it at least tolerable to most of the nations of the region.
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I shall extend debate for 48 hours until 08:30 GMT June 2nd, 2020.
Even though we have opposing views, I appreciate Councillor Shakur's amendments to better the legislation.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
I also agree that the Europolis should not tell the member states what to do and not to do. However, this is not Europolis interfering with the member state's business. It is about enforcing human rights and ensuring the safety of a marginalized group. It is not uncommon to observe mental health deterioration, extreme trauma and, on a worst-case scenario, suicide, on LGBTQ+ folk who have gone to conversion therapy, as mentioned in the preamble of this act.
Councillor Shakur, you have claimed that this bill shuts down any clinic that does not "push a transgender identity". I do not think that helping people who have decided they are not transgender or people who are confused with their gender identity is harmful. I understand the confusion, and propose an amendment:
DEFINITIONS
I. Conversion therapy:
Therapies based on sexual orientation and gender identity, used as a way to turn LGBTQ+ people heterosexual and/or cisgender.The practices of changing a person's sexual orientation or gender identity by fraud, pressure or force.I also would like to retire the following amendment, as it is not compatible with the legislative processes of some member states, as pointed out by Councillor Shakur:
SECTION III - IMPLEMENTATION AND ENFORCEMENT
IV. All member states of the European Union are required to adjust their national law(s) with this Act
in 6 months fromimmediately after its approval by the European Council.In place of the act I have retired, I am proposing the following amendments:
SECTION III - IMPLEMENTATION AND ENFORCEMENT
I. Member states shall close all services involving conversion therapy in the next
48 hours3 months after the passage of this Act. Member states shall ensure that no institutions may continue to practice conversion therapy.
III. Failure to implement any section of this Act shall be seen as a breach of human rights and may allow for legal action through the European Court of Justice.
IV. All member states of the European Union are required to adjust their national law(s) with this Act in6 months3 months from its approval by the European Council.Kent Evergreen
European Councillor of The Malboryan Republic -
The Union of Duxburian Dominions currently has no position on this and intends to abstain. As our society has never stratified on gender or sex identity, the issue is basically unheard of in our country. Nothing prevents Duxburian nationals from changing or attempting to change their gender or sexual preferences, and societal pressure to do so is virtually non-existent. I had to explain to the Steward what conversion therapy even is.
If it's banned, we certainly wouldn't miss it, but we also don't want to restrict consenting adults from willingly pursuing whatever therapy they decide is right for them. If a practice is potentially dangerous or ineffective, the people have the sovereign right to decide that for themselves. The Duxburian government can provide warnings, information, and regulation, but we don't just ban things to save people from themselves. That's outside the scope of what the Duxburian government is for, and should be outside the scope of what the European Union is for.
Finally, I don't see why the Council needs to depart from the usual 180 day harmonization period. The Duxburian government does like to act quickly, but it can't just magic a law onto the books "immediately" and not necessarily in 90 days, either. The Sovereign Assembly has its own timetable, which is often backed up with domestic legislation. Unlike many legislative bodies with quirky tricks of procedure, consideration of legislation in the Assembly is normally first come, first served. Unless you expect us to declare a state of emergency for a piece of European legislation, nothing jumps the line. Since we have a non-partisan democracy, representatives are particularly and very personally accountable to their constituents, and thus need extra time to canvass their districts for opinions. It can take over 150 days for us to harmonize our laws with EU legislation. Unreasonable deadlines will simply be ignored.
Wesley Greene
Councillor of the Duxburian Union -
The discussion period has now come to an end. There are SIX amendments to be voted upon. These are the proposed amendments:
Amendment I - Proposed by Cllr. Evergreen
SECTION II - ENSURING PROTECTION
I. It is the duty of member states and their governments to protect people from conversion therapies and other practices based around conversion therapies. The member state and their government shall uphold this duty by ensuring that these practices are not performed.Amendment II - Proposed by Cllr. Evergreen
SECTION III - IMPLEMENTATION AND ENFORCEMENT
I. Member states shall close all services involving conversion therapy in the next48 hours3 months after the passage of this Act. Member states shall ensure that no institutions may continue to practice conversion therapy.
III. Failure to implement any section of this Act shall be seen as a breach of human rights and may allow for legal action through the European Court of Justice.
IV. All member states of the European Union are required to adjust their national law(s) with this Act in6 months3 months from its approval by the European Council.Amendment III - Proposed by Cllr. Shakur
DEFINITIONS
I. Conversion therapy: Therapiesbased on sexual orientation and gender identity,used as a way to turn turn lesbian, gay, and/or bisexual people heterosexual.Amendment IV - Proposed by Cllr. Shakur
SECTION III - IMPLEMENTATION AND ENFORCEMENT
I. Member states shall close all services involving conversion therapy in the next48 hours6 months after the passage of this Act. Member states shall ensure that no institutions may continue to practice conversion therapy.Amendment V - Proposed by Cllr. Shakur
SECTION III - IMPLEMENTATION AND ENFORCEMENT
III. Failure to implement any section of this Act shall be seen as a breach of human rights and may allow for legal action through the European Court of Justice.Amendment VI - Proposed by Cllr. Evergreen
DEFINITIONS
I. Conversion therapy:Therapies based on sexual orientation and gender identity, used as a way to turn LGBTQ+ people heterosexual and/or cisgender.The practices of changing a person's sexual orientation or gender identity by fraud, pressure or force.Please carefully read each amendment before voting. Amendments II and IV clash with one another, as well as Amendments III and VI, so please be careful to choose between those amendments.
Voting on amendments begins NOW and will last until 17:00 GMT June 5th, 2020.
I vote FOR Amendments I, II, V and VI. I vote AGAINST Amendments III and IV.
Edward Firoux
Council Speaker and Councillor for Inquista -
I Vote For Amendments I, VI, V, and IV. I Vote Against for Amendments III, and II.
Councilor Francis Plessis of Leagio
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I vote FOR Amendments I, II, III, V and VI. I vote AGAINST Amendments III and IV.
Duchess Poppy Carlton-Romanov
Councillor for Icholasen -
I vote FOR Amendments I, II, and VI. I vote AGAINST Amendments III, IV, and V.
Martin Bourgaize
Councillor for the People's Confederation of Eastern Haane -
I vote FOR Amendments I, II, and VI
I vote AGAINST Amendments III, IV, and VFriedrich van Allen
Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag -
I vote FOR amendments I, II, V and VI.
I vote AGAINST amendments III and IV.Donald D. Tusk
Councillor for Spain -
I vote FOR Amendments I, II, V and VI. I vote AGAINST Amendments III and IV.
Kent Evergreen
European Councillor of The Malboryan Republic -
I vote for Amendments I, IIII, V, and VI.
I vote against Amendments II and III.Wesley Greene
Councillor of the Duxburian Union -
I vote FOR Amendments I, IV, V and VI.
I vote AGAINST Amendments II and III.Mrs. Azaya Dubecq,
EU Councilor for Nofoaga -
I vote FOR Amendments I, II, V and VI.
I vote AGAINST Amendments III and IV.Ms. Rice
Councilor, The Republic of Sunkist -
I vote FOR Amendments I, IV, V and VI and AGAINST Amendments II, and III.
Carita Falk
Cllr. for the Archrepublic of Vayinaod
The Kingdom of Spain
