[Discussion] Declaration of Independence and Copala City

[Spain]

First of all I would like to thank Councillor Juvinal from the Union of Syndicates for bringing this important discussion to the Council. When it comes to me, I have been waiting until things calmed down a bit to do my statement, but I don't understand why other Councillors have just ignored what it is an European-level problem, not just because Copala City is a relevant thing in the Union, but also because 4 or 5 countries are involved on its creation, if I'm not wrong.

First of all I will comment the events on the Haanean side. These events which have taken place are not well, we as democrats shouldn't allow riots in our countries, because they are not a democratic way to share your opinion. Someone who burns things, who throws stones to police officers like we have seen in Barcelona during the last days, and even yesterday because a rapper was jailed after exalting terrorism acts like those the Basque terrorist band, ETA, did. But that's not the matter right now. The matter is that we are seeing those stateless people rioting on Copala City streets, and this should come to a peacefull stop.

On the Reitzmic side, I think the Kingdom of Reitzmag, and please Councillor van Allen, take notes of what I'm going to say, still has a lot to learn from its neighbours and many others democratic countries like theirs. We have seen the Royal Navy, tanks and even the Reitzmic Air Force flying over the city, without even letting the Copalan Government, which I would like to hear and if they can attend to this discussion, that would be great; act because, oh surprise! The Kingdom of Reitzmag suspended their autonomy without even giving a chance to the Copalan Government to negotiate with them. I hope the Copalan Government, which I respect as an autonomical government, is working on this and shows Europe how they can do things alone.

Some weeks ago, when the Commission Elections were going on, I heard something on the radio that got my attention. It was someone from the Reitzmic Government, who said the following absurd things: "The European Union is breaching our sovereignty by trying to manipulate our policies and influence the foreign relations of our country"; or a message to Commission candidates saying: "Stop your authoritarian attitudes that makes the situation worse."; and the best message: "However, it shows that the possibilities of Krexit have risen dramatically due to your recent stances that made the people feel oppressed. And I want to warn you that in case nothing happens, we have no choice but to give up and to say Krexit will be the only choice we have". I think, Councillor van Allen, that there are way better ways of defending something than threatening with a Reitzmic exit from the European Union, so please tell your Foreign Minister he should look after his words, because he messed things up.

Summing up, I think Copala City is a complex question, same as the stateless people declaring they now live in the dealy, cruel and even insane Eastern Haane. While we should let the Copalan Government act, without any foreign intervention, we should also recognise their differences with the Kingdom of Reitzmag but affirm they are a part of Reitzmag until the opposite is said. But, at the same time, Reitzmag gives me more reasons to support a referendum. On the other side, the Haaneans crisis must stop, and if the Copalan Government isn't able to come up with a solution, then we, the European Council, or the European Commission, sould start thinking in some. Thanks.

Donald Tusk
Deputy Speaker and Councillor for Spain

[Alkharya]

I would like to thank Councillor Juvinal for bringing this discussion. I initially wasn't planning to speak on the council, but since my homeland is busy for various reasons, I don't think they'll be able to get a councillor in the near future, but alas. May Aylin Gökçen rest in darkness, without pain.

For all purposes, Copala City was intended to be an autonomous region inside Reitzmag to store the Free Nicolezian government in exile after the 2020 communist coup. While I do not support the Reitzmic invasion of the city without permission from Copalan authorities, I do not support the Haanean protests in Bomballey, either. I do not think that the Haanean protesters have a say on an independent state inside Copala City, and I struggle to find a reason why there would be, especially a movement led by Josephine Areai, a dictator who has summoned nothing but a reign of terror in the Union of Syndicates throughout her reign. It amazes me how she hasn't been charged with a list of war crimes that is longer than the distance between where I speak and the door of the council.

François Le Berre, a candidate for the Premier Commissioner for the last elections, had some accomplishments he listed in his election campaign: Let me read some of those out for the council just to show my point on what kind of a person Areai is:

Negotiated with dictator Josephine Areai - she planned to kill me, a person she viewed as being the "linchpin" of the "stranglehold the inferior European race has upon the glorious and supreme Haanean nation," by submersion in a bath of acid, if I did not join her cabinet - and even then, she would still personally kill me in ten years. In the end, I did, but with the assurance that I would be less likely to die, as I would be "useful for the purposes of the Haanean Nation."

Served, under extreme duress, as "Minister of Propaganda and Censorship" for Areai, a position in which I attempted to serve as poorly as possible while still pleasing genocidal Areai, who wished to kill all those of "European" race. I was not responsible for censoring or creating propaganda; this was Areai's responsibility.

Convinced Areai, through negotiation between the years 1994 and 2006, to replace bloodthirsty Tsaiu-t Ueliohen, leader of her secret police and Minister of Resource Allocation (responsible for overseeing "death factories', among other functions) and known for drinking the blood of those he had killed, primarily through brutal ways (castration followed by untreated infection leading to death, feeding of castor oil, impaling, crucifixion are examples), and eventually exile him in 2008.

There's another point here, but I won't read it here loudly, as the council gets my points very clearly. How this woman still has a rally of support behind him is beyond me. I do not believe that protests and riots are inherently a bad thing, but when they're lead by a person like Areai, it's impossible for me to support them.

---

Münevver Birdane
Internal Affairs Commissioner of the European Union

---

(OOC: I haven't really followed the happenings in the past week or so as I was busy with other stuff so this statement might've missed some stuff, apologies if this is the case.)

[Kingdom of Reitzmag]

Colleagues, I disagree that you think the Reitzmic Government invaded its own territory. There isn't a civil war happening, but rather a near violent protest and mass disobedience against a temporary policy made to ensure the safety of the people. I disagree that they required any permission from the devolved authorities when they are also governing these lands. With these statements from the Honourable Members from Spain and the European Internal Affairs Commission, it only gives support to the Haaneans to keep on doing what they are doing. For your information, there are no shootouts happening unless the Haaneans conduct a mistake of using deadly violence against any of our troops deployed in the area.

While I'd like to thank the Honourable Internal Affairs Commissioner for sharing the war crimes from Ms. Aerai given that these may be additional charges set unto her by the Reitzmic Court. I do not however know whether or not that the Reitzmic Government would grant the request of the UoS Government to send back Ms. Aerai, but I don't think that there's a high chance of such a request being granted.

[A Former User]

Councillor van Allen, have you or anyone else in your Government ever spent time in a labor camp? Have you or anyone else had to see children burnt alive, their melted fat used as oil to keep lamps aflame?

Have you seen your friends collapsing in the fields, their bodies taken and hung from the rafters of a dormitory, left there to slowly rot?

Were any of you ever fed castor oil and then forced to eat your own excrement?

Have any of you ever had to see infants being thrown against walls and trees until they died?

Have you ever had to walk through forests from which the body parts of your loved ones dangled?

Have you ever seen your friends dead, without limbs, without eyes, without ears, blood covering their limp bodies as excrement drops from every single one of their orifices?

Have you ever seen piles of burning bodies, masses upon masses? Have you ever smelt the smell of burning bodies?

Have any of you ever been raped?

No? Then you have absolutely no right to even consider trying the monster Areai. She tortured our people like this for sixteen agonizing years; her judgement is ours and ours alone.

We will never let go of this right; we will never forgive her.

She will stand trial in Kiel before the High Tribunal. We will accept absolutely nothing else.

Apart from that, yes. The violence in Copala City must end; the Haaneans there must stop fighting for an independence they do not deserve.

Kelarōn Juvinal
Councillor for the Union of Syndicates

[BrumBrum]

I do call for calm on both sides in Copala city. Violence will help nobody , what is needed is peace and cooperation. I do believe Reitzmag and the Copala government really do need to sit around a table and any solution must be inclusive of an autonomous Copala backed by Reitzmag. Now if there is appetite for independence this should be considered but through a legal referendum with proper timescales for campaigning on both sides and an independent report conducted into the effects independence would have. This is the way to get independence if its wanted, not violence and not mobs. I think the EU should back this sort of proposal but a referendum should only be done if parties favouring one win a new election to keep it fair. On the deportation of stateless people if they haven't comitted a crime that should stop immediately.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe

[Spain]

Cllr. van Allen, you just made the most outrageous statement ever heard by myself on this Council. You just have accussed the Internal Affairs Commissioner, who I would like to thank for coming here and join this discussion, and myself to "give support to the Haaneans to keep doing what they are doing". Where on Earth were you when I delivered my sppech, or when the Internal Affairs Commissioner did the same? Where you even here, listening to us, or were you at Mars rallying for another Winston massive disaster campaign? I will repeat it once again, because it seems I wasn't clear enough: I condemn what the Haaneans are doing, and it must come to an stop. But at the same time, your country should get the army out of Copala City, that's unfair and you are invading the sovereignty your government said lots of times we the European Union were invading. How hypocrital.

Cllr. Mizrachi-Roscoe, I think you are lost in all of this mess, just like Cllr. van Allen from Reitzmag. The Copalan Government isn't calling people to riot, to be violent towards their police and the Reitzmic Army; thinking that is simply being wrong or talking without any knowlede of what it's going on over there. Of course, there should be an answer to the 132,032 people that voted for Amal Maxwells to be their Mayor, as for the people who voted for George Maxwells to be their First Minister. What the last Copalan Election result said is Copala City aims for independence, and the people think so. But we are talking about a massive group of Haaneans, rioting and even declaring independence from Copala City. That's the real problem there right now, Cllr. Mizrachi-Roscoe. This Council requires some knowledge about the matter we are debating, and we should be a little bit informed.

Donald Tusk
Deputy Speaker and Councillor for Spain

[Pravoslaviya]

Van Halen is the single biggest hypocrite in this chamber.

Reitzmag lectures everyone about Copala City being its own territory, but it invades the sovereignty of its Caspian neighbours by unilaterally building islands and literally planting its flag in the middle of the sea. We are not committed to Copalan independence, but we are not going to bail Reitzmag out of its own mess as long as the Caspian question is unresolved.

It was Reitzmag that decided to lease away part of its own country. It was Reitzmag that decided to promote a mass immigration policy and transform the demographics of that leased territory to cultures that are alien to Reitzmag. They cannot be surprised that the people in that territory have no allegiance to Reitzmag and are wracked by ethnic tension and division. The policies which Reitzmag willingly pursued with respect to Copala City would be seen in Pravoslaviya as treason, and this is why. This is where 'migrants first' politics always ends up, and it should be a cautionary tale to all globalists.

Reitzmag now stands to lose what had been an integral part of its country. That is sad for them, but in Pravoslaviya we will shed no tears. If they want our sympathy, let alone our help, they should cease their expansionist, destructive policies in the Caspian.

Cllr Tupac Shakur

[BrumBrum]

In response to Tusk I in no way believe or imply that Copalas government have promoted violence, quite the contrary they have been against it. I merely meant that Reitzmag should work with Copala Cities government rather than militarily occupying it and suspending autonomy and work with the Copalan government on the roadmap to a referendum if that is what is desired by the Copalans.

James Mizrachi-Roscoe
Councillour for United Duchies

[Fayrrendel]

The position of the Ruthenish State is that the events in Copala City is an internal matter for Reitzmag, so Ruthund takes a neutral stance on this matter for the time being. I will say this though, the behavior of Reitzmag is growing to new concerning levels and it was a highly unfortunate blunder, in my opinion, that New Hampton did not consult the local government before intervention. Albeit, Councillors-- until Copala City actually makes the decision to declare independence, I see it somewhat inappropriate for the Council to use its time to discuss purely internal affairs of a country, when it bears no threat to harm the stability of other member states. As we all know, Copala City remains an autonomous zone of the Kingdom of Reitzmag, and not its own country. Both Copala City, the Kingdom of Reitzmag, and as far as I am aware, the European Union acknowledges that Copala City is NOT a sovereign entity.

To clarify this fact, I turn now to the end of the Copalan First Minister's public statement on the current situation:

I could now declare independence, but I won't. These measures are the ones that I want to be respected and enforced,and I hope that for once, Mr. Bridges the stubborn man listen to "his citizens". If he doesn't grant the first one, I will personally take him, his government and Reitzmag to the European Court of Justice. If he jails me, he will proof my points. It's up to you, Simon Bridges, so listen up:

• Devolution of the Copalan Autonomy.
• Respect for people demonstrating on the streets.
• Retirement of the army.
• Haanean citizens shall cease on their try.
• There will be a curfew and some restrictions which don't include the army.

The Copalan State, the Copalans and myself won't be deterred. Thank you for your attention, and have a nice day.

We can sit here and judge the Reitzmic government all day Councilors over their actions, but I see this as nothing more than virtue signaling-- and I personally don't care for it. Once Copala City actually sees itself as a Sovereign entity, I think there is enough of an argument to have this conversation. Until then Councilors, I feel even having this discussion is begging the question which is improper for a multinational organization to do to its member states.

Tony Odhinazen
EU Councilor, Ruthund

[Spain]

Councillors, I think we need to retake this discussion, this time focusing on Copala City.

Last night moves made by the Kingdom of Reitzmag are certainly alarming and concerning. After the Copalan Autonomy had been suspended to tackle some sort of incidents in the Copalan district of Bomballey, which by the way was unseful because the Copalan Government tackled the situation without Reitzmag doing a thing; it has never been returned, but they have unilaterally pulled out of the Treaty of Buckingham. For those new to the affair, that Treaty established 2 autonomous areas which were created under the Nyetthem Accords to host refugees and then given another use, as it wanted to protect the Nicoleizians that ran away from their lands because a rogue communist state which, by the way, Reitzmag have negotiated with and was taken to the ECoJ by my country because of that; have illegaly taken the lands. What a coincidence!

Now, the Copalan Autonomy is scratched, the Government, freely elected by Copalans is scratched, the Nicolezian Government offices have had to move away as they can't trust on Reitzmag anymore and now, we have a lot of people aiming for independence trapped in a loophole because of 400 or so old Lords. This couldn't be more retrograde and old. As an European Councillor and Council Deputy Speaker, I'm very supportive of the policy former Commissioner Juncker and now Commissioner Birdane seems to be following: Diplomacy First. I have not seen any single sign of democracy, but a whole series full of backstabs, incompetence to accept a result which is against the central Government policy or not being able to make a proper treaty and making a huge amount of mistakes to force a new negotiation. Also, there are some rumours arounf that say the whole Treaty of Buckingham was set as an idea to get Icholasen's Commission vote and a military alliance. At the same time, Reitzmag was having some affairs with Icholasen's greatest enemy: UNSR.

I would like to receive an answer, and also to bring George Maxwells, the First Minister of Copala City or the Prime Minister, depending what your point of view is; to this discussion, if mostly all Councillors taking part of this discussion agree. I would also like to hear some things from the Nicoleizian Councillor and of course, the Reitzmic Councillor. Thank you.

Donald Tusk
Deputy Speaker and Councillor for Spain

[Kingdom of Reitzmag]

(delivered to the Council from the hospital through video call)

Your accusations Mr. Tusk are blatantly false. You are acting for the European Union to intrude Reitzmic sovereignty. It is simple, the representatives of the people have spoken and we cannot do anything to change their decision. They decided to pull out of a treaty, so let them be. The autonomous areas were not created by the Nyetthem Accords, only Copala City was created autonomous by the said treaty. But even then, the elections were said to have been manipulated by alien voters who moved to Copala City from countries aside from Icholasen just to rig the electoral process and implement a separatist policy. Recently, my team have polled Reitzmic refugees living in Copala City that make up more than 50% of the voter population during the elections. According to the data we got, nearly all of them did not vote for the CIU and other separatist parties but it is surprising that they still won as an autonomous government. The Copalan Autonomy would be reshaped following this repeal and would be returned in a much more organized way in which their voices would be much more properly heard. I do not see any more need to conduct this discussion, but I believe we should discuss instead the aggressive foreign policies of some European Nations following the recent repeal that is under the full jurisdiction and discretion of the Reitzmic sovereignty.

Friedrich van Allen
Interim Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag

[Spain]

Cllr. van Allen, nice to see you on that... weird screen; anyway it seems the Hospital isn't treating you very well as you are saying some things which aren't true, maybe a lot of medication has been given to you? Whatever, the "accusations", like you call it, even if they are facts, aren't blatantly false, but we will get to that in a minute. I'm not acting for the European Union to intrude Reitzmic sovereignty, I'm just retaking a discussion, something I can do since I'm a freely elected Councillor. Still, I know your trauma with the sovereignty everytime we discuss about your country, so maybe we could call the psycologist for you to start that treatment.

The Autonomous Areas were created through the Air Marshall Plan, in the Nyetthem Accords. Moreover, the plans are simple: "New Moreland shall be recognized as a special and autonomous Reich within Reitzmag, and it will also be recognized as a holy Reich for Inquistan Orthodox citizens within the country." Maybe the medication you have been given doesn't let you remember that, but don't worry, we are here for it! Maybe the medication also made you say the elections were rigged, because according to official stats and not your stats which I don't believe after those imperialist and authoritarian attitudes shown by Mr. Bridges and his 'gang'. These stats made by your team are not correct, you just need to look at the Copalan Government official stats: "35% Nicoleizian, 30% Inquistan Orthodox / Reitzmic, 20% Reitzmic, 15% others". And also, it is very concerning to me and to many countries on the European Union, the house of democracy, equality and 21st Century values to hear the following words, and as the Deputy Speaker, I feel ashamed of them, so please Councillors, listen up to these words if you haven't before: "The Copalan Autonomy would be reshaped following this repeal and would be returned in a much more organized way in which their voices would be much more properly heard."

Of course, 'their voices' mean the Reitzmic voices, a 20% of the total population of Copala City in 2020. This is simple uncceptable, nor democratic. How can a country consider itself a democracy when its Councillor says these words in the house of the Europeans? I'm worried, really worried about these words being said here and I hope to hear a rectification from you, Mr. van Allen; if you can't because your medication doesn't allow you then I invite you to bring your Deputy Councillor here, would work better than seeing you in an hospital's pijama. Finally, Reitzmic sovereignty isn't being violated, because nobody is interfering in an election process, nobody is invading your country and many more things that aren't happening. Please, stop this victimising and have a nice recovery.

Donald Tusk
Deputy Speaker, Councillor for Spain

[Montenbourg]

Today, it is imperative to end this hysteria, to refute the rhetoric of the Reitzmag imperialistic notions and rearrangement of Copalan voices to their own benefit and to accept the obvious fact: Copala City is an independent, active participant in international affairs. Like other countries, it has its own national interests that need to be taken into account and respected.

Emma Granger
Councillor for Montenbourg

[Fremet]

@Spain , granting your request, George Maxwells may join this Council discussion to deliver a prepared statement and take questions from Councilors.

Charles Michel
Council Speaker

[Angleter]

((OOC: Following discussions, I'd like to clarify that the demographics of Copala City are within the following bounds:

Inquistan Orthodox Reitzmics 30%-40%
Nicoleizians 30%-35%
Non-Inquistan Orthodox Reitzmics 15%-20%
Others 15%

I'm prepared to allow a little bit of leeway / differing opinions within these bounds, which is realistic given that Copala City's entire population has only been there for like a year. But please respect those bounds. Also note that this might not necessarily translate into the demographics of the October electorate due to differential turnout.

There is no admin ruling, nor will there be, on whether the election was free or rigged. Characters can argue either way, and characters can believe what they want.))

[Kingdom of Reitzmag]

I believe that you're discriminating and separating Reitzmics through their religion. We polled all Reitzmics regardless of their religion in the recent survey Mr. Tusk. Therefore, this is evidence that something wrong happened in the elections that showed a different result. Looking at the data, plus the true demographics of Copala City, there is a very slim chance that the Separatist movements won a majority. And thus, I think that the review that will happen during the transition period would be helpful in restoring true democracy in Copala City. Other than this, I believe that we in the EU must not meddle with our member-states' Internal Affairs.

And for your knowledge, I'm already recovering Mr. Tusk, so no need to worry.

Friedrich van Allen
Interim Councilor, Kingdom of Reitzmag

[Montenbourg]

Nobody is discriminating Councillor Van Allen, your country is not-standing by the compromises signed by your leaders. The most recent public opinion think that the Union should protect the interests of Copalians and members of other ethnic groups living in Copala City.

People support Copalians plea. History should teach every authoritarian that they don’t last forever, because rhetorical greatness cannot pay the bills. Your people are censoring the legitimate interest of Copalians. Copala City is the common historical legacy of Nicolezians, Inquistans and yes Reitzmics; and a very important factor in regional stability. Again as said by the Deputy Speaker Reitzmic sovereignty isn't being violated, because nobody is interfering in an election process, but we see what is the intent here. Is not democratic.

Emma Granger
Councillor for Montenbourg